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How Smart is a Fish?

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o0 Mystic Mama 0o
Crew

Rainbow Nerd

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:08 pm


Not to start another moral debate, but I thought this article was really interesting:

Quote:
How Smart is a Fish?
by Melissa Breyer

Dogs are easy. You talk, they respond–smart! Fish, not so easy. It’s not like we get the frequent opportunity to really interact with them–and for anyone who’s seen a goldfish repetitively doing the rounds in its bowl, it’s easy to buy into the old adage that fish have only a three-second memory. (Although, do you remember Gus, Central Park Zoo’s “neurotic” polar bear? Much like a goldfish in a bowl, the poor old guy repetitively circled his habitat in the same exact manner day in and day out. But no-one accused him of having only a three-second memory–he got diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder caused by boredom, and got an animal therapist! Only in New York…)

Anyway, recent research may suggest the possibility that a fish circles its bowl because it is really stinkin’ bored, not because it doesn’t remember that it just did it, again and again and again. What does Dr. Kevin Warburton, adjunct researcher with Charles Sturt University’s Institute for Land, Water and Society, have to say about the three-second memory of a fish? Rubbish!

Warburton, who has been studying fish behavior for years says, “There’s been a lot of work done over the last 15 years on learning and memory in fish and it as been found that fish are quite sophisticated. Fish can remember prey types for months; they can learn to avoid predators after being attacked once and they retain this memory for several months; and carp that have been caught by fishers avoid hooks for at least a year. That fish have only a three second memory is just rubbish.”

Some of Dr Warburton’s experiments have been on how fish learn to handle different types of prey. “What came out, unexpectedly, was that while they were learning about their prey, their foraging efficiency went down,” he said. “With one type of prey, the fish got more and more efficient at catching their food, but when we put two different types of prey in together, their overall efficiency dropped. We think it was because of they suffered from divided attention. It’s a cost of learning.” Did you hear that? Learning.

Another example of fish memory was that some fish avoid predators after being attacked once, a memory which can be retained for several months, not just three seconds. Warburton said fish also exhibit behaviours that we tend to think as human.

“Some behavioral traits that we think are very human, such as deception, fish have as well,” said Warburton. “Fish can recognize other individuals and modify their own behavior after observing interactions between other individuals. For example Siamese fighting fish will attack other members of the same species more aggressively if they’ve seen them lose contests with other fighters.”

Dr Warburton said that fish also check out suspected predators to gauge the level of potential threat. “For added safety, they often do this as cooperating pairs, with the two fish taking the lead alternately,” he said. “They will approach predators most closely when they have cooperated in previous inspections.”

In reef environments, “cleaner” fish remove and eat parasites from larger “client” fish. “But what’s fascinating is that they cooperate more with clients when they are being observed by other potential clients,” said Dr Warburton. “This improves their “image” and their chances of attracting clients. Some cleaners cooperate with small clients to raise their image so as to deceive larger clients, which they then cheat on by biting them rather than removing their parasites!” Pretty industrious.

So next time someone tells you you have the memory of a goldfish? You’ll be sure to remember to tell them about this research…
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:05 pm


I had a pretty intelligent Betta... I always wanted to get it a bigger bowl, but I was younger, so it never happened. After a few months it stopped being hostile towards me, and seemed to become more fond of my presence(Associating me with free food) And nearer to the end of it's like I would notice it thoughtfully rearranging the stones in it's little half gallon tank(By picking them up in it's mouth and dropping them elsewhere.) .

It wasn't really like, a fun pet, but there was observable thought.

I swear, It seemed like if I forgot to feed it, it'd start chucking pebbles at the side... maybe I was just imagining things. xd

[Kegan]

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:41 pm


Shoot, I'm almost outraged that people think fish are stupid!

As well as having 4 fish tanks at home, I work with fish at the aquarium. I can tell you from firsthand experience, they are intelligent. They remember their keepers, they get antsy around feeding time, anything you would expect from another animal, you get with fish. Most have their own personalities, and some do really crafty things, like parasitic mouth brooders whose mouths can't hold their own eggs, so they trick a different species into carrying them around. The first eggs then eat the one's of the parent who is incubating them because they hatch first. Tell me that's not freaking smart!

Octopi (although they're not fish) are one of the most intelligent creatures out there. Ours have these boxes for enrichment. They start them off with one box. The box has a crab in it. The only way to get the crab is to pull the lever on the box to unlock it. The octopus figures out what needs to be done and gets the crab out. They then keep adding boxes to make it more and more difficult. There was also another one at a different aquarium that figured out he could shut the night time lights off by squirting them with water, and he kept doing so every night because they bothered him.

**Just to point out, goldfish should NEVER be kept in bowls. Most types of goldfish grow to over a foot in length, and keeping them in a tank that's too small will cause their bodies to stunt while their organs keep growing and as you can imagine, they then die a slow and painful death.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:13 pm


Well, the smartest fish may be as smart as some of the dumber mammals, which we are fond of, but as with animals above the water, there is a lot of diversity. A of of fish may be nearly brainless.

The betta may be smart-ish, but the goldfish may be truly mindless.

Other behaviors we may assign value by our emotional attachments(like I tried to say)

Doesn't mean I endorse eating them, for a few different reasons, and different situations I don't, but I don't go around gunning down people en masse just because they are mindless self serving slobs, now do I? That'd hardly be the humane way to dispatch them.

[Kegan]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:50 pm



I'd put cephalopods as smarter than most mammals. Most are pretty freaking brilliant. I am the biggest fish rights supporter in the world (well probably not, but one of the biggest I've ever met anyway), and even I'll say, As long If you're eating sustainable fish, go for it.

I think humans have a really messed up complex. Who are we to judge intelligence? Wrecking the only planet we can live on (at least within our reach at this point) seems like a pretty dumb thing to me. Especially since the one trait all things are born with is the desire to survive.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:23 pm


a lot of people aren't really even that intelligent, they just parrot the thinking of other people. They're basically apes adapted to living in the inherited works of their ancestors. Unfortunately, they're the ones who are constantly sewing their oats.

[Kegan]

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Yanueh
Crew

Shameless Shapeshifter

PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:05 pm


Having had fish in my life, it's been rather obvious to me that goldfish had a memory span longer than three seconds. They may not be geniuses, but they are smart enough to associate your presence with OMGFOOD!
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:42 pm


My house tank has several faire goldfish, whenever they're hungry they either line up at the bottom of the tank and stare at us, or they sit and look at their food container.

I'd say they're pretty smart, or they've trained me to feed them.

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Leggo My Preggo


Ruthless Regular

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:28 pm


Fish are just as smart as anything else that's survived this long.
Most fish need others of their kind. This is smart, defence.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:11 pm


Leggo My Preggo
Fish are just as smart as anything else that's survived this long.

Brains aren't the only trait that promotes longevity of a species. Being able to reproduce fast and furiously or being relatively indestructible are employed by some species who aren't so endowed in the brain department.

Yanueh
Crew

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[Kegan]

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:49 pm


Yanueh
Leggo My Preggo
Fish are just as smart as anything else that's survived this long.

Brains aren't the only trait that promotes longevity of a species. Being able to reproduce fast and furiously or being relatively indestructible are employed by some species who aren't so endowed in the brain department.
I was tempted to say nearly the same words. xd
PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:59 am


sad it actually makes me quite sad to read this because we have a big like 55 gallon fish tank at my house (that belongs to my boyfriend's dad) and we got a Molly, A Goldfish, a couple of Guppies, and the guy asked us if we wanted a couple of these little fish he had for free (I'm guessing they are what are called feeder fish or something along those lines) so we said yes and now they have pretty much multiplied in droves....I mean there are TONS of them.....but the reason this makes me sad is because my boyfriend's dad said he is going to take all of them except for this one little one that is unique and give part of them to his uncle to put in his pond(and half of them if not all of them will die of the environment change)...the rest are going to a person he knows how has Piranha..... It makes me cry to think about those cute little things being eaten....considering they are so entertaining to watch...I can run my hand by the glass and they scatter although some of them that know me now will stay and just look at me....and I can't help but think noooo....I tried to get him to just keep a couple but he said no...then I asked him to just keep one of the big ones and he still said no...because he wants to get bigger fish...he said if they wanted to live they shouldn't have had so many babies...(well that's not what he said he said they shouldn't have had so much sex o.O and sometimes I wonder why my boyfriend is an a**?)....still its quite tragic....I mean I know if something isn't done with them it will become an unhealthy environment but....still.... gonk


I mean I will eat fish but I don't get to know them personally first....if I did I would probably never be able to eat a fish ever again....or any other animal alive....I've tried to become a vegetarian but I just really like meat...and plus being low income I can't exactly be really, really picky about what I eat sad I eat what they cook and most of the time its meat of some sort...


The_9th_Doctors_Rose

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sunsetsmile
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:16 pm


DarkRose072687
sad it actually makes me quite sad to read this because we have a big like 55 gallon fish tank at my house (that belongs to my boyfriend's dad) and we got a Molly, A Goldfish, a couple of Guppies, and the guy asked us if we wanted a couple of these little fish he had for free (I'm guessing they are what are called feeder fish or something along those lines) so we said yes and now they have pretty much multiplied in droves....I mean there are TONS of them.....but the reason this makes me sad is because my boyfriend's dad said he is going to take all of them except for this one little one that is unique and give part of them to his uncle to put in his pond(and half of them if not all of them will die of the environment change)...the rest are going to a person he knows how has Piranha..... It makes me cry to think about those cute little things being eaten....considering they are so entertaining to watch...I can run my hand by the glass and they scatter although some of them that know me now will stay and just look at me....and I can't help but think noooo....I tried to get him to just keep a couple but he said no...then I asked him to just keep one of the big ones and he still said no...because he wants to get bigger fish...he said if they wanted to live they shouldn't have had so many babies...(well that's not what he said he said they shouldn't have had so much sex o.O and sometimes I wonder why my boyfriend is an a**?)....still its quite tragic....I mean I know if something isn't done with them it will become an unhealthy environment but....still.... gonk


I mean I will eat fish but I don't get to know them personally first....if I did I would probably never be able to eat a fish ever again....or any other animal alive....I've tried to become a vegetarian but I just really like meat...and plus being low income I can't exactly be really, really picky about what I eat sad I eat what they cook and most of the time its meat of some sort...




Every fish in our goldfish pond started out as a feeder fish. They survived just fine, grew, multiplied----there are goldfish out there that are bigger than my feet! We also threw a tropical catfish in there, which lived until he got so big that my husband ATE him!

I will be a little more impressed with their intelligence when they quit biting hooks with worms on them.

There is a big difference between intelligence, instinct, species-specific behavior, and conditioned response, to me.
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