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So, I was thinking about the archangels, and I couldn't decide if there were four or what. My friend was saying in her game, they have four archangels, and under their character profile it says "One of the four archangels", so I looked it up.

Apparently there can be seven. xD I guess this s**t depends.

Well, in Christianity, Catholicism and Judaism and such, the three most referenced and well known (most don't have names, I guess. xD) are Michael, Gabriel and Rapheal.

Now, we all know by now that Supernatural makes it's own mythology. It'll blend and match til it likes what it's got for it's own storytelling. Because according to some myth, Uriel is an archangel. Which I guess could make sense within the show, but...Why would he be in the same garrison as Cas? Cas is clearly not one of the powerful or well known angels. I mean, Lucifer kinda had to ask his name. Gabriel clearly just rolled with knowing it, and Castiel just knew of him. Raphael and Castiel's knowing each other seemed to date back to the whole killing Cas incident, which really wasn't that long ago. And. >.> Well, that doesn't make Cas seem all that powerful...

It's clear the angels live in ranks. But when Castiel mentioned archangels, it wasn't when they met Uriel. He just called Uriel a specialist...(didn't he?)

So I'm going to assume...in Kripke's world, that angels that may be considered archangels are just higher up (I kinda view Heaven like a military. xD) and then you have archangels - which, I don't know how many of them there are, but so far, if we look at the most popular, we've met two and know of the third.

Does that mean those are the only ones? In Pagan myth, it's sad Lucifer was one - and I could see Kripke meshing those two myths for the sake of making Lucifer their brother - if all four of them were archangels, all four would be that close together, right?

Zacharias, who's clearly just delivering Micheal's messages and obeying orders higher than him xD, seems to react the Lucifer vs. Michael, apocalypse thing with a "They said it should happen, and it sounds good to me - then we don't have to care about you jerks. It's not like God's around anyway. razz " attitude. To me it seems like he's just doing what he's told, liking it, and not necessarily attached to the problem. Which makes me think he's not "close" to the archangels or God. That that's not his...group. razz They're not his PEOPLE. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE GUYS? XD I'm given the impression by his attitude, that while they're his heavenly brothers and they're more powerful and above him - he doesn't KNOW them.

Which is all very shallow compared to the feelings of the archangels we've met.

There's Raphael. He first of all seems lost and confused now that, in a metaphorical sense that's pretty much literal, he's been left at home alone basically in charge of himself as well as the rest of Heaven (considering his power and archangel rank, I'm sure he gets to be in charge. xD).

As far as he's concerned, daddy's dead. There's no order - and he's clearly saddened by this. D: He's in a bitchy mood, sure, but how would you feel if you were lost and confused and sure your father was dead? I'm sure that's the best explanation he's got for not having seen him taking any control over this situation just yet. So, he resorts to letting the apocalypse happen. What the hell else is there to do - it's not like it matters if it does anyway, you know. It was only a matter of time before Lucifer busted out anyway, so why not take care of it now - Michael had to take care of it before.

Then there's Gabriel. He was the most open with his feelings, so I have less to ramble about. xD But basically, he's very passionate about his family. I mean, don't ******** talk about them like that, okay, Dean? Damn. xD He even clearly does not hate humans. He's already proved he likes Sam and Dean, he lives among them and basks in their bad foods, naked women and still lives up to his angel duties and brings justice to dicks, just, in the most fun way he can think up. It's OBVIOUS he doesn't hate humans like Lucifer does.

He even just wants to go home - he's only hiding because he can't stand the fighting. That's why he wants the apocalypse - because that means there will be nothing left to fight about. He can go home and everything can be happy for him, you know.

Lucifer wants the apocalypse for almost the same reason. There's also the being powerful thing, because he has authority issues and needs to be the best. But he's passionate about his family like the other two. This is what makes me think those four know each other and are more family than say, Uriel or Zacharias.

Which is why I'm saying xD I think there's four of them only. It's generally the most popular thought - when you think archangels those are the four you think of.

They were for me at least. xD I didn't know half the other names on Wiki. Uriel was the only one I recognized, and I just can't convince myself that in Kripke's world, he's an archangel.

What I'm wondering is, other than Michael - do you think we'll be meeting any more of these powerful angsty brothers? xD

Also, as I wrote this (for no real reason other than it being on my mind), I noticed more connections to Sam and Dean. XD

Lucifer is Sam, and Michael is Dean.

...But so are Raphael and Gabriel, in a way. xD I mean, Raphael is convinced there's no point following the guidelines of some absent, probably dead father, so he acts out. >.> Sounds like Sam to me. xD

Gabriel cares about his family and wants the fighting to end, but is too scared to stand up to them and hides in the most human nonsense, like food and women and jokes. ...XD That totally sounds like Dean to me. razz

Like, everyone keeps pointing out that Sam and Dean are Michael and Lucifer, and it's their destiny on both ends to destroy each other and always fight and blah blah blah. But I think that's just who Sam and Dean COULD be. They don't have to turn out like Michael and Lucifer.

I think they could resemble a better two, if those two could set the example first. ;D If Raphael could get over himself after having time to think in the timeout Cas put him in - and if Gabriel can grow a pair and decide "Hm, maybe the apocalypse isn't the only way to solve our problems" - then Dean and Sam could also just as easily end up working together, rather than killing each other. Just because they're their vessels doesn't mean they have to live up to their example.

Act out your own play, you know.

All of that archangel is stuff leads me to the other thing on my mind. When Lucifer said there were five things the cult couldn't kill. Vee had the same first idea I had, which was the four horsemen. Which makes sense, those are powerful ********. I mean, shoot DEATH in the face? I can't imagine how well that would go.

The next thought I had was the archangels and God. Because it can't kill Lucifer, and I'd sure hope the cult can't kill God. xD But that would leave out the horsemen, which...I still can't see being killed by a cult.

Then I thought, hey, maybe the archangels count as one creature, considering they're all, you know, archangels. And then the four horsemen. But the problem with THAT is that I can't see it killing GOD, and God's not an angel or a horsemen.

So then there's, maybe the horsemen all count as the same thing. I mean, they're all different types of horsemen, but it's not like Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and Lucifer are all horribly similar other than being archangels. So then it'd be archangels, horsemen, God...xD Then I don't know.

We know Lucifer still counts as an angel - I mean, doesn't he? Or is he now something separate, giving us a fourth out of five things? I mean, I figure if he is he just doesn't have his wings or something that connects him to heaven. And he fell (cast out, same diff), but maybe he just got disconnected like Cas is - and then he was locked away and so he just had archangel powers in him, but wasn't able to reach Heaven any longer?

Either way, there's either one or two other things missing from it if any of that happens to be right. And it's bothering me. razz

I figure it's supposed to, otherwise Lucifer wouldn't have mentioned it. xD And he doesn't lie...but he does omit s**t from the truth, so he may have phrased it in a way to make it so like "D: Four other creatures?" when it doesn't necessarily mean how it could sound. >.>

xD That last part was confusing. razz I'm done rambling. It's out of my system now. I'mma go watch a movie.

Actually Lucifer was the most powerful of the angels and also the most beautiful, that's why he was arrogant enough to actually defy God. I think they might have said it in the show too...

Yeah, but Michael's power came from the sword, which came from God.

Holy crap... you're funny, in a good way, and work hard to sell this to me. Well, I think I'm sold. You should think about being a lawyer.

Also, I'm pretty sure that in the show they said that for every generation there is a designated vessel for angels. So, Dean didn't have to be back there to kick Lucy's butt, so some other person who was Micheal's vessel was. Btw, great explanation for the vessel thing.

Again, I would say that: God knows it all and how everything happens, so he had this whole Dean and Sam plan from the beginning. But, since you've kind of proven that the show is making it up as they go, I can't even say anything.

That makes a lot of sense. I also noticed that a lot of times when there's a prophesy, people become so obsessed with avoiding it that they walk straight into it. I also like how you said that the biggest thing about God is that he gives us free will- to human anyway, while the angels are just so hung up about what is supposed to be, they forget that humans have the will to chose. Like Sam and Dean, Gabriel expects them-- demands that they play their parts, and Dean (and Sam) are like "Screw you mofo! We've got a brain of our own and we do what we like."
They can chose to or not to do what ever the heck they want! And no one, not even God, can really make them. Because free will, was his gift to us-- and I think one of the reasons that angels dislike humans. Because we have free will and while they have to do what God or whomever's higher then them tells them to do.

Also, what you said about Chuck-- remember that episode where they just met him I think. And he had some sort of ground breaking prophesy, and Zachariah showed up and told him that if he tells the brothers, he will be punished.

I love how we have this whole philosophical discussion going on.

GUH, that made me MAD. Zacharias has no right to run about using (or silencing) Chuck for his apocalyptic shenanigans! These angels clearly have more free will than they think, because I kind have to agree with Anna on some of the s**t they're doing - does that REALLY sound like something God would order?

That, or he's actually missing (which I think is a little weird...if that's the case, I expect Kripke can shock me with a good explanation) and these self-righteous jerks are running about practicing free will now that no one's there to stop them.

I imagine they've just always known right from wrong and they get harsher punishment immediately for committing wrong, and to them, it's like they have less free will than a human. Where humans can ******** up and apologize, angels fall or whatever. Lucifer used his own free will to betray heaven. That had to have been back when God was still around.

That's why I call them a military. They're trained above the "civilians" for a higher purpose - which is why they don't have room to ******** up majorly and not get punished worse. They're supposed to stand professionally, ready to achieve their goals and protect humans from things like the devil and other nonsense beyond human control. Their job is important, and they're taking their roles for granted. They've lost sight of what good they're supposed to be doing. I guess that's the difficult part about being forced to serve and then realizing you don't want to - like Anna.

Or being trained to obey orders from an unknown source and then not being able to always find that source when you feel you need it most. It must be hard to be so used to a certain way of living and then having to decide to act out on their own, like Castiel or Raphael.

Then you have Zacharias who goes along happily with those above him out of an obsession for power - and Lucifer who fights his way to the top for the same reason. It's all a broken organization. The angels have forgotten their purpose out of too many reasons to count - each angel being different.

Anyway, I think Chuck had seen what the angels were up to. I like to think that's how Cas found out. Though, they never revealed that, so there's a chance it'll get brought back up and he'd seen something else. :O

Gabriel demanding them to play their parts...I honestly believe 1) he thinks it'll happen anyway, and he's trying to make them choose it now while they're okay instead of going through more painful s**t just to end up having to make that choice. 2) he's being selfish and just wants to go home to a family that's no longer fighting.

I actually thought he was the most friendly about the whole thing. xD Which is weird, since he threatened to trap them til they said yes and got snippy with them. But he genuinely seemed sympathetic that it was the "best" way. He just wasn't admitting that the "best" way was simply the easiest for him.

What I mean is xD I felt he was more suggesting it strongly, whereas Zacharias was doing his best to order them around even though it's a choice.

What's funny is - if it were "destiny" and "has to happen", you'd think it wouldn't have to be a choice. xD

(I totally didn't mean to defend Gabriel. xD I know what you mean, and I agree - the angels are very "DO IT" and it's like "...No." Almost like the angels are deadset on taking their free will away, but can't seem to. xD Which is frustrating - they're used to have more power than that, like over Cas. What? It worked for a little while on him. xD But Cas changing his mind again against a prophecy is proof angels are free to choose as well. xD They might just not have realized it.)