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PirateOfJustice
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:41 pm


I've a certain special persuasive speech coming up, for which I chose the topic of convincing my fellow classmates of the existence of ghosts...

However, after much debate within myself about the central idea of the speech, I've decided that it would be impossible to actually convince them of said paranormality unless they have actually experienced such. I'll certainly admit all of this to them almost immediately and that my main goal is just making them more susceptible to the belief that ghosts are real. So I guess my main issue is getting the ball rolling, getting evidence, gathering supportive visual/audible aids and organizing the speech in such a way that a certain classmate will not be able to convince people of the opposite way of thinking, as part of the assignment is that we're paired up with someone in the class who is supposed to deliver a 1-2 minute rebuttal speech to counteract our 6-8 minute persuasive one.

Any ideas?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:52 pm


Ghost hunting can be approached in two ways: Spiritually and Scientifically.

Spiritually being that in investigations, investigators have a psychic as a party member, to sense out the spirits as well as possible visions. Mediums are used as well for communication.

Scientifically being the use of devices such as the EMF detector and voice recorders. Sceintific hunters are more or less skeptics about ghosts, and always try to debunk their findings. If they cannot debunk then it's possible the occurrence is paranormal.


So what part were you deciding on debating?

Raht
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Dogstongue

PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:35 pm


It seems quite a few Americans (and probably people world wide in general) believe in ghosts, or an afterlife at the very least. There's a good chance there are a couple people in your class who have had experiences of their own (or are growing believers anyway.) I think there are better grounds for debate from a scientific stand point. Debates can get heated and confusing or irrelevant to people when you get into beliefs. There's not much to argue because each circumstance is so personal.

I know I mentioned in in my introduction, but I'll say it again: Check out the book SPOOK by Mary Roach. She's non-biased about her beliefs in ghosts, but she explores all areas of the interest and the history of the search for the human spirit. Very cool book. I'm sure you'd find some great information in there to strengthen your debate. smile
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:39 pm


Yeah, Scientific view is the best way to go for a debate. Last time I checked you can't shove in morals or spirituality in debating. Well at least that's what my Speech teacher said when we did our debate speeches gonk

The best fuel for your debate is extensive research and to gather evidence for yourself. Keep a slight open mind though.

What specific do you need?

Raht
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PirateOfJustice
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:56 pm


that actually answered my needs pretty well, and I'll definitely look into picking up that book. I especially need sources and other than wiki and a few other sites I've next to nothing. I'd really like to avoid TAPS since they've become semi-main stream and also a friend of mine who used to talk to someone on the show told me the guy had said they faked some of the stuff for ratings though it's mostly true. there again that's that whole "friend of a friend said this about seeing something about a guy who had said..." scenario. still though, for sources those shows may actually be good enough...

I guess I also would like to hear a few of the main points someone might bring up in the rebuttal. and yeah, I agree, a scientific stand-point will work best.

sad thing is, I may have harmed my credibility since my first speech was a joke one about preparing one's self for the oncoming zombie apocalypse...

it went over really well, and people liked how knowledgeable I was on the subject so maybe that will be in my favor actually...
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:20 pm


That debate is actually hard to rebuttal when coming from the scientific standpoint.

It's like fighting fire with fire.

Is there any scientific proof?
Why yes, there is.

But there are some that might say this:
How do you know it's not faked?

Spirit realm idea is simply an idea and opinion

Some haunts are proven as hoaxes.

Hauntings have been soiled by Hollywood and the movie industry.

It's impossible to tell if a evidence is genuine.

How do you know it's not your mind just playing tricks on you?

Could be a house settling

Raht
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PirateOfJustice
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:29 pm


thanks! that's actually helping tremendously!!

I've got some of those bases covered, and if I have my own evidence it may be more believable. the main things I need to avoid now (at least from an academic standpoint involving my grade) are fallacies. course I think I've got those covered too.

sad thing is, I have to go with keeping an almost disambiguous standpoint: saying it could be this, that or this but I can still say what I believe it is.

here's the chunk of my outline that I've got so far:

Introduction –
“It is wonderful that five thousand years have now elapsed since the creation of the world, and still it is undecided whether or not there has ever been an instance of the spirit of any person appearing after death. All argument is against it; but all belief is for it.”
SAMUEL JOHNSON, The Life of Samuel Johnson

Whether or not Samuel Johnson actually did believe in ghosts, his words still represent the main focus of my speech.

Although I promised to attempt to convince you of the existence of ghosts, in truth, it is impossible for me to do so. However, it is not simply because I lack the ability. It is because, until you’ve had your own experience with the other side, you’ll never wholly believe.

You may swear up and down that you do, but there will always be some level of doubt, however small, that these EVPs and ghost stories are all made up. Something I’ve created in my own mind, or in the case of an EVP your subconscious took in a jumbled up mass of noise and sound and squished them into something meaningful or substantial.

The truth is, you’ll always have those doubtful thoughts. In fact, even if you have your own experience there’s still going to be some level of skepticism, especially when dealing with someone else’s experience. So let’s take a look at some of the real and fake aspects of these spiritual beings

Two Main Points
- The real, the fake and the disambiguous
o Various hoaxes
o Ghost hunting
- ‘Unusual’ evidence
o EVPs from personal research
o Personal experience

Conclusion

What I said earlier about those who believe in ghosts having a little skeptic in them goes the same way for the skeptics having a bit of belief in them. You may have been sitting in this room all this time thinking, ‘oh my god, will this idiot just shut up? This is about as real as the zombie thing.’ But even in you there is some level of belief. There’s a loud voice booming “he’s wrong, he’s wrong! Ghosts just aren’t possible!” but there is also a little voice whispering, be it with fright, awe or what have you, “what if he’s right?”

Therefore, it is my hope that my speech has at least opened your mind to the degree that you are more susceptible to the possibility of ghostly beings existing just beyond the edges of your vision, murmuring to themselves, to you or no one in particular just beyond your ability to hear.

_____________________________________________________________

I think I've got a pretty good start. We've got a ways to go before we start telling these speeches so I've time to work out the kinks and get the research done, I just need to make sure I go on the last day or on a day that follows a day off from work haha.

@Dog: I'm actually now in the process of ordering her book from amazon, just deciding on another or two to go with it for sources and free shipping haha. it lets me fool my frugal self so I trick myself into buying more emo
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:49 pm


LoL frugal.

You got some good points there, boyo. It's very nicely written.

I nearly failed Speech ._. so I can't really be a judge of that xD

Raht
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PirateOfJustice
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:56 pm


gracias! I probably have my english major to thank for that haha.

so I guess the next area to tackle is the body of my speech, but that'll have to come from these books I'm gonna get...GOD I want them all!! but only a few fit my needs so I guess that helps weed them out...

well, luckily we got a good teacher who makes each class fun and knows me by name, well, at least my last name haha. she explains things very well and seems to like my ideas, especially this one.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:04 pm


That's good biggrin Having a teacher like that is most excellent and encouraging.

I wish you luck though :3 and if you need anything else just ask.

Raht
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PirateOfJustice
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:13 pm


thanks! and will do, you can count on that! sweatdrop haha
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:10 pm


Awesome! I hope you find it as useful an arsenal as I did.

It looks like your debate is well structured.

And as for TAPS and any other TV show based on "reality" there's always some "creative editing" but there's also a surprising amount of undeniable evidence. Here's a youtube link to a montage of all of their best captures: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8vl8zcGV3I
(Ok, the quality of this clip sucks, but there's still good stuff there....)

Dogstongue


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:53 am


got any other books up your sleeve, Dog? need uno mas for free shipping haha.
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Ghost Hunting and Hauntings

 
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