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 Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:52 pm
UPDATE 11/23:
We met today, and the Rabbi wanted to have the whole service in English because of one student's request. Since the student was not there today, it was put to a vote. It was about a 10 to 2 vote nay.
But next time we meet, the syudent will be there and my minyan will be praying only in English. No vote. Pretty much everybody is up in arms about it. We are not Christians! Everyone is real upset, besides those three people who suggested and voted. sad evil
My Tefillah group has gone goy. Pray in English? Contrary to popular belief, I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN.
So, long story short, I'm spending next meeting holding my own with the Orthodox minyan. They have a Mechitzah. They use Tefillin. And it's all Hebrew. wink
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:53 pm
Not everyone speaks and understands Hebrew Lummany. Speaking English is not equated with Christianity, it's just a commonly known language and a lot of the times is the only language some people know (like myself). If your classmates aren't comfortable with Hebrew they should pray in a language they are comfortable with...which is probably English. Calm down, it's not like your minyan is in Latin!
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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:50 pm
Kingpin I gotta disagree with you there. Loshon Hakodesh isn't modern hebrew. We believe (or are supposed to) that it is a holy language and has more "power" then any other language. Only on rare occasions is it recommended to use english even if one has no idea what the davening means. (one example that comes to mind is I heard a shiur saying to read the Kinnos in English then Hebrew so one understands what they are saying)
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:55 am
Scion, with great respect to your teachers, every siddur I've ever opened contains the valuable insight that it is impossible to pray with true kavanah if one does not understand the words one is using.
Prayer in Hebrew is ideal in the sense that it enables any knowledgeable Jew to enter any congregation anywhere in the world and keep up just fine. However, we aren't all lucky enough to have grown up with a good Jewish education -- Hebrew, kashrut, Shabbat, and so on are a privilege, not an inborn ability. I didn't grow up in an observant home at all, and still have a great deal of trouble with some of the prayers. I learned the prayers that I do know in Hebrew by going to a Reform synagogue for three years. They did English on two Shabbatot every month, and Hebrew (transliterated) on the other two. Very, very gradually, I learned the Hebrew and what it meant.
I think it's a good idea for a school minyan to offer to pray in English one day a week, then with transliterated Hebrew (Hebrew words in the Latin, which is to say the English, alphabet) once or twice a week, and then in Hebrew on the other days. That way, people can ease into learning what the prayers mean in their 'home' language, so that when they do cross over into Hebrew, the prayers will have meaning for them. Lumanny would probably learn more -- and be a better influence -- by exercising patience with his fellow Jews than by abandoning them as they made their first tentative steps towards Jewish prayer.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:16 pm
No, no, you guys misunderstand what I am saying!!
I speak Modern Hebrew but the roots are the same as Prayer Hebrew and I always understnad at least 95% of what I'm saying when I pray in Hebrew. I find it meaningful and the language speaks to me; I don't even automatically translate every word to English as I read Hebrew anymore; I read the Hebrew words and I feel what it means in my heart. I know what it means.
If I didn't understnad Hebrew, I would definately want to pray in English, even though Hebrew is Holy and all. But I do understand Hebrew. I understand it in my head and feel it in my heart.
And also, the English in the Siddur that we use is just awful.
And didn't you read the part about how upset almost all of us were, the approximately 10 to 2 vote against English? We all understand the Hebrew, all but two of us. We all feel like goys, all but three of us. (Though I don't expect anyone else to follow me to the Mechitzah Minyan, it's just one day and all.)
And Baruch Hashem, it is in fact only one day next week, not one day every week. If everyone continues to react the way they carried on when the idea was originally pitched, we will probably never do it again.
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:17 pm
I think you should try and accommodate everyone, whether they have the privileged of knowing Hebrew or not, at least part of the time. English does not equal goy. You're over reacting.
And yeah Scion, Divash has my back and she's the boss lady so what she says goes! smile
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Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:23 pm
Divash Scion, with great respect to your teachers, every siddur I've ever opened contains the valuable insight that it is impossible to pray with true kavanah if one does not understand the words one is using. I do not disagree. However if one is obligated to daven three times a day and is in a place where they feel they can with a minyan the chiyav is to daven in Hebrew. Obviously one is only judged against what the individual can handle, I'm just talking about ideal (i know its weird ideal doesn't include understanding in this case but it applies)
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Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:18 pm
**********UPDATE 3/12:
That whole English thing never happened. But I have other problems.
I'm ashamed of my Minyan. We never pray. It's the worst excuse for a Minyan I've ever seen. No one takes us seriously. I feel held back.
I'm a Reform-Conservative Jew, but Reform first. And yet I'm leaving my minyan for a Conservative one on a trial basis. I might not come back.
I hate to leave the other 3 people who actually try in vain to pray. With me, some 30% of all our praying will be gone. I'm leaving our Gabbi in the lurch.
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