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 Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:34 am
Japanese_Green_Tea Kroenig How do you all believe? After everything? With everything going on? I'm not wording this right... I guess the best way to put it is I became an atheist because I couldn't believe in anything anymore. How did you all remain believers? Is it support of family the entire time, blocking some things out, or just a faith I don't have? What is it?
An honest question requires an honest answer.
There was a time where I questioned my faith. Not as much in whether there was a God or not, but which religion was the right one.
I went into studies for a good 3-4 year span, still learning new things and improving on my limited understanding, to find out If, and Which God/Religion was the right one.
I'm not going to unload religious facts or make you feel I'm forcing any one belief on you, so I will keep this more about my personal experiences through all of this.
What I found was a rich abundance in at the very least the existance of an intelligent designer, or creator. Some people interpret the evidence differently, and there are many Atheists/Agnostics who have brought forth good points and arguments, but for the most part I have concluded through my own investigation that there is, if you look hard enough, plenty of evidence providing the existance of a creator.
Now whether this Creator is Jehovah and the Christian belief system is right or not, I think there is strong, but not nearly as conclusive evidence for, but enough to have me believing that this one is the right one. I don't profess to have all the answers, but enough of the questions I had were answered.
And unlike your comment of "Support from your family" From my experience, there litterally was none. My Brother is an Atheist who hates how religious I am, (But at least he respects how intelligent and solid my base is for believing in God) My sister is a major Evolutionist whom I have had more than my fair share of arguments, and other members of my family have labeled me a radical Christian in the worst way. Some family and friends have given me support, but most of my immediate family, not as much. So that was actually a very difficult issue I had to deal with.
I think the best thing I can say about Faith is this, The Heart cannot accept what the mind rejects. As much evidence as I have found through my years of study, ranging from the Philosophical, Historical, and Scientific, Religion still needs a certain amount of hope, and 'Faith' regardless. If your mind is closed off from spiritual possibilities, then it is very difficult to find God at all.
But I think Faith is misleading too. Many people's description of faith is nothing more than Wishful thinking. If you 'Wish upon a star' and believe hard enough then it will be true. But bottom line is, if there is indeed no God, no amount of Faith will make one appear. One cannot find God, or establish a relationship with him on Faith alone.
I have faith, which is backed up by so much truth, from the evidence I have found, and through my spiritual experiences to convince me that there is a God who loves us. Many have come to alternate conclusions, but this is the one I have found.
I hope this at least gives you a better understanding, at least from where I come from as a Christian. Once again I don't want to force my belief on you, or make you feel uncomforitable with it, this is just the best answer I can give you to your question. And I would be more than willing to answer any other questions you may have, if you wish to ask them.I totally love the way you handled this 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:05 pm
I'm 13, so i might give a typical 13 year old answer, so please don't flame me smile :
I am a Protestant (so, yes, I have faith in God). In my own personal opinion, I believe that atheists are atheists because generally a)all that they believe in is reasoning (science), b) they have nothing to believe in, they've given up or something of that sort, or b) its hard to accept that there's something above us, watching us; it's kind of unreal. I don't have anything against atheists, no no. its just the question is: are you right or are you wrong? that's kind of the big thing, right? if we were to find out, what would happen? just imagine. hypothetically, if the believers were wrong, we'd be devestated, wouldn't we? we'd all be thinking "so i was living a lie, huh?" or if the non-believers were to be wrong....well, I don't really know about that, haha. i don't get why people are trying to dig deep through all that stuff to prove each other wrong. just leave it as is so that we don't bring a big fight amongst ourselves. let people believe in what they believe in, just don't hurt one another. even when the other (non-believer or believer) starts bashing you because of what you believe in, don't let them get to you. I never did, so why should anyone else?
anyways, this is what i love about these forums and threads like these. we get to talk about things like this and share our opinions without mostly getting hated on for what we think. biggrin
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:56 pm
Jazzy Ally I'm 13, so i might give a typical 13 year old answer, so please don't flame me smile : I am a Protestant (so, yes, I have faith in God). In my own personal opinion, I believe that atheists are atheists because generally a)all that they believe in is reasoning (science), b) they have nothing to believe in, they've given up or something of that sort, or b) its hard to accept that there's something above us, watching us; it's kind of unreal. I don't have anything against atheists, no no. its just the question is: are you right or are you wrong? that's kind of the big thing, right? if we were to find out, what would happen? just imagine. hypothetically, if the believers were wrong, we'd be devestated, wouldn't we? we'd all be thinking "so i was living a lie, huh?" or if the non-believers were to be wrong....well, I don't really know about that, haha. i don't get why people are trying to dig deep through all that stuff to prove each other wrong. just leave it as is so that we don't bring a big fight amongst ourselves. let people believe in what they believe in, just don't hurt one another. even when the other (non-believer or believer) starts bashing you because of what you believe in, don't let them get to you. I never did, so why should anyone else? anyways, this is what i love about these forums and threads like these. we get to talk about things like this and share our opinions without mostly getting hated on for what we think. biggrin Interesting, well i can answer your question about why the church, the scientific community and the followers of various other religions wont leave each other alone. It all comes down to the simple fact that most religions denounce every other religion. That and the word religion is probably the antonym of science, the two cannot be melded together smoothly. EX: World religions say that there is (an)(are) all mighty creator(s) that made everything where as science says there was the big bang. EX: Most monotheistic religions condemn any other religion that does not believe in god to hell or some other bleak afterlife
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:28 pm
XxXTemporary_IllusionXxX Jazzy Ally I'm 13, so i might give a typical 13 year old answer, so please don't flame me smile : I am a Protestant (so, yes, I have faith in God). In my own personal opinion, I believe that atheists are atheists because generally a)all that they believe in is reasoning (science), b) they have nothing to believe in, they've given up or something of that sort, or b) its hard to accept that there's something above us, watching us; it's kind of unreal. I don't have anything against atheists, no no. its just the question is: are you right or are you wrong? that's kind of the big thing, right? if we were to find out, what would happen? just imagine. hypothetically, if the believers were wrong, we'd be devestated, wouldn't we? we'd all be thinking "so i was living a lie, huh?" or if the non-believers were to be wrong....well, I don't really know about that, haha. i don't get why people are trying to dig deep through all that stuff to prove each other wrong. just leave it as is so that we don't bring a big fight amongst ourselves. let people believe in what they believe in, just don't hurt one another. even when the other (non-believer or believer) starts bashing you because of what you believe in, don't let them get to you. I never did, so why should anyone else? anyways, this is what i love about these forums and threads like these. we get to talk about things like this and share our opinions without mostly getting hated on for what we think. biggrin Interesting, well i can answer your question about why the church, the scientific community and the followers of various other religions wont leave each other alone. It all comes down to the simple fact that most religions denounce every other religion. That and the word religion is probably the antonym of science, the two cannot be melded together smoothly. EX: World religions say that there is (an)(are) all mighty creator(s) that made everything where as science says there was the big bang. EX: Most monotheistic religions condemn any other religion that does not believe in god to hell or some other bleak afterlife oh ya, huh? well, thank you! biggrin
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Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:32 am
whenever someone brings up god at my school i first tell them 'If you dont try to recruit me i wont prove you wrong.' so then they start saying 'Believe, Believe.' or whatever and my answer is always. Religion is something Science is to young to understand, and Science is something to mature to have the heart to put you down. You can say what you want but if you press me for answers I can find an explaination for how it happened. I have already found lodgical resons for several things, Jesus healing the blind, Mosis parting the water, and Jesus bringing the dead back to life.
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Posted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:24 am
elfsiren Japanese_Green_Tea Kroenig How do you all believe? After everything? With everything going on? I'm not wording this right... I guess the best way to put it is I became an atheist because I couldn't believe in anything anymore. How did you all remain believers? Is it support of family the entire time, blocking some things out, or just a faith I don't have? What is it?
An honest question requires an honest answer.
There was a time where I questioned my faith. Not as much in whether there was a God or not, but which religion was the right one.
I went into studies for a good 3-4 year span, still learning new things and improving on my limited understanding, to find out If, and Which God/Religion was the right one.
I'm not going to unload religious facts or make you feel I'm forcing any one belief on you, so I will keep this more about my personal experiences through all of this.
What I found was a rich abundance in at the very least the existance of an intelligent designer, or creator. Some people interpret the evidence differently, and there are many Atheists/Agnostics who have brought forth good points and arguments, but for the most part I have concluded through my own investigation that there is, if you look hard enough, plenty of evidence providing the existance of a creator.
Now whether this Creator is Jehovah and the Christian belief system is right or not, I think there is strong, but not nearly as conclusive evidence for, but enough to have me believing that this one is the right one. I don't profess to have all the answers, but enough of the questions I had were answered.
And unlike your comment of "Support from your family" From my experience, there litterally was none. My Brother is an Atheist who hates how religious I am, (But at least he respects how intelligent and solid my base is for believing in God) My sister is a major Evolutionist whom I have had more than my fair share of arguments, and other members of my family have labeled me a radical Christian in the worst way. Some family and friends have given me support, but most of my immediate family, not as much. So that was actually a very difficult issue I had to deal with.
I think the best thing I can say about Faith is this, The Heart cannot accept what the mind rejects. As much evidence as I have found through my years of study, ranging from the Philosophical, Historical, and Scientific, Religion still needs a certain amount of hope, and 'Faith' regardless. If your mind is closed off from spiritual possibilities, then it is very difficult to find God at all.
But I think Faith is misleading too. Many people's description of faith is nothing more than Wishful thinking. If you 'Wish upon a star' and believe hard enough then it will be true. But bottom line is, if there is indeed no God, no amount of Faith will make one appear. One cannot find God, or establish a relationship with him on Faith alone.
I have faith, which is backed up by so much truth, from the evidence I have found, and through my spiritual experiences to convince me that there is a God who loves us. Many have come to alternate conclusions, but this is the one I have found.
I hope this at least gives you a better understanding, at least from where I come from as a Christian. Once again I don't want to force my belief on you, or make you feel uncomforitable with it, this is just the best answer I can give you to your question. And I would be more than willing to answer any other questions you may have, if you wish to ask them.I totally love the way you handled this 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:57 am
Well if you break down anything, and analyze everything you find that there is infinite possibilities.
The way I see things is that for lack of a better word we are Biological AI...Or as a friend tried to say because he doesn't like the word Artificial, is Biological intelligence.
So as why I see us as this is because we run off of electrical signals just like a computer. So in a snap we could hypothesize that we computers are unintelligent 'WE'. And a dreamed AI would be an Intelligent Copy of 'US'.
And our program or as people refer to as Spirit... because something has to have us jumpstarted and keep us balanced...so we can then assume our program is a said soul.
But this thought is fresh because I am well studying Robotics and Embedded systems and have just taken an interest in Prosthetic limbs as a basis of study for a possible future career. But enough about that.
Next I will also say belief in a so called Heaven and a so Called Hell. First off one or well I believe that we are here to learn something...once we have learned that we are done here...That is why I believe that when you die you have either learned what you wanted to learn this go around or have decided that the life you are in doesn't have what you are trying to learn. Second I don't believe in a Hell because if I am correct in my thought which there is no scientifical way or spiritual proofy way to prove my thought I have to wait for when I die to see if I am right and sadly I probably won't be able to share my finds.. XD Oh well.
Which if I am wrong, I have a plan for that to make my stay in Hell easier. My final wish for when I pass is to be buried with Marshmellows, a Roasting stick, a bar of Hershey's chocolate and Graham Crackers. That way if I am incorrect then I will be covered.
HOW THE HELL DOES THIS TIE INTO ANYTHING THAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER HAS SAID?
Well it is quite simple by coming out with the basics that I believe I can now safely stand by this. "Every body needs something to believe in. Even if you are Atheist you believe that there are no deity's and if Agnostic you believe in the existence of nothing... essentially...so Everybody has a belief that makes them happy. I also believe that if you put to much thought in what you believe that you are wasting your life. So say I spend my life researching every religion, and then I hit the end and realize that this isn't exactly what I planned then I have either well done what I was supposed to or avoided what in my belief system came here to learn. There is no way to tell until you pass.
So I'd say follow your gut, if you believe to want to be a Christian or Agnostic or atheist I'd say do with what you will and I hope what ever you decide to do makes you happy. ^.^ and good luck!!!!!
Japanese_Green_Tea
That was a very pleasant read, and very sweet. I agree completely...and I believe that I essentially packaged your words in a different view point that essentially ends the same...perhaps should have completely finished reading your post before making mine... Oh well..
I have a question... it's something really cool..and I think you with your beliefs can find this very cool. With Spiritual energy in pretty much anything.
Okay here are the guide lines
First have noise canceling ear buds or head phones. Pick some music different ranges from anything you listen to. It works best if it is in your taste of music. Next get somebody with an open mind. Then have them hold out their hands Palm up. and you hold your hands Palm Down over their hands.
But remember to start the song it's easier to do it with one hand instead of two. So play the music with your hands about three to four inches apart and wait. After a good while ask if they felt anything... if they have an open mind or are able to receive energy then they will most likely be a little weirded out.
But me and my mom do this every now and then and things she has picked up on from the music..is in this list..
Skinny puppy (a band) - Light Drug use. for an album that was released in 1995 she felt great sadness and deep drug use. in earlier stuff she felt light drug use and happy thoughts. (Reason for the 95 album to have great sadness was a member and friend of the band died of an Over dose with heavy drug use.)
and happy thoughts usually consist of like a ball or sphere. Drug use is usually well sloppy and doesn't have a shape and doesn't feel pleasant...
Though you can try this exact same thing without music and just do the hand stuff I mentioned and you can feel each others energies.
I wish you luck if you decide to try this out...it is well beyond words if you can get it to work..have fun
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:36 pm
desertpunk Well if you break down anything, and analyze everything you find that there is infinite possibilities. The way I see things is that for lack of a better word we are Biological AI...Or as a friend tried to say because he doesn't like the word Artificial, is Biological intelligence. So as why I see us as this is because we run off of electrical signals just like a computer. So in a snap we could hypothesize that we computers are unintelligent 'WE'. And a dreamed AI would be an Intelligent Copy of 'US'. And our program or as people refer to as Spirit... because something has to have us jumpstarted and keep us balanced...so we can then assume our program is a said soul. But this thought is fresh because I am well studying Robotics and Embedded systems and have just taken an interest in Prosthetic limbs as a basis of study for a possible future career. But enough about that. Next I will also say belief in a so called Heaven and a so Called Hell. First off one or well I believe that we are here to learn something...once we have learned that we are done here...That is why I believe that when you die you have either learned what you wanted to learn this go around or have decided that the life you are in doesn't have what you are trying to learn. Second I don't believe in a Hell because if I am correct in my thought which there is no scientifical way or spiritual proofy way to prove my thought I have to wait for when I die to see if I am right and sadly I probably won't be able to share my finds.. XD Oh well. Which if I am wrong, I have a plan for that to make my stay in Hell easier. My final wish for when I pass is to be buried with Marshmellows, a Roasting stick, a bar of Hershey's chocolate and Graham Crackers. That way if I am incorrect then I will be covered. HOW THE HELL DOES THIS TIE INTO ANYTHING THAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER HAS SAID? Well it is quite simple by coming out with the basics that I believe I can now safely stand by this. "Every body needs something to believe in. Even if you are Atheist you believe that there are no deity's and if Agnostic you believe in the existence of nothing... essentially...so Everybody has a belief that makes them happy. I also believe that if you put to much thought in what you believe that you are wasting your life. So say I spend my life researching every religion, and then I hit the end and realize that this isn't exactly what I planned then I have either well done what I was supposed to or avoided what in my belief system came here to learn. There is no way to tell until you pass. So I'd say follow your gut, if you believe to want to be a Christian or Agnostic or atheist I'd say do with what you will and I hope what ever you decide to do makes you happy. ^.^ and good luck!!!!! Japanese_Green_Tea That was a very pleasant read, and very sweet. I agree completely...and I believe that I essentially packaged your words in a different view point that essentially ends the same...perhaps should have completely finished reading your post before making mine... Oh well.. I have a question... it's something really cool..and I think you with your beliefs can find this very cool. With Spiritual energy in pretty much anything. Okay here are the guide lines First have noise canceling ear buds or head phones. Pick some music different ranges from anything you listen to. It works best if it is in your taste of music. Next get somebody with an open mind. Then have them hold out their hands Palm up. and you hold your hands Palm Down over their hands. But remember to start the song it's easier to do it with one hand instead of two. So play the music with your hands about three to four inches apart and wait. After a good while ask if they felt anything... if they have an open mind or are able to receive energy then they will most likely be a little weirded out. But me and my mom do this every now and then and things she has picked up on from the music..is in this list.. Skinny puppy (a band) - Light Drug use. for an album that was released in 1995 she felt great sadness and deep drug use. in earlier stuff she felt light drug use and happy thoughts. (Reason for the 95 album to have great sadness was a member and friend of the band died of an Over dose with heavy drug use.) and happy thoughts usually consist of like a ball or sphere. Drug use is usually well sloppy and doesn't have a shape and doesn't feel pleasant... Though you can try this exact same thing without music and just do the hand stuff I mentioned and you can feel each others energies. I wish you luck if you decide to try this out...it is well beyond words if you can get it to work..have fun
I have done some excercises and tests a friend of mine showed me once. And at one point I was moving my hand side to side, it felt heavy enough as if I had a basketball between my hands, but there was nothing there.
There is definately some merit behind it.
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:49 pm
For me I guess it's kinda simple, we believe god created everything, others believe that nothingness magically exploded for no reason and randomly made everything, either one is just as likely, and evolution and such aren't exactly denied in the bible, it is worded in such a way that for all we know, god could have created bacteria to evolve first, or made the big bang.
From there it's pretty much just that if Atheists are right, then nothing, it doesn't affect anyone in any way, except that they all get that nice feeling of superiority that so many of them seem to require.
If Christians are right however, Atheists are all going to hell, and yeah, a lot of us will get that same feeling of superiority that many of us also seem to require.
Possibly all or definitely nothing, a pretty simple choice
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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:05 pm
I'm trying to follow Christianity myself and I believe that God exists and wants to have fellowship with us. But the problem is that we are sinful and can't get close to God because he is a holy God. But God made a way for us to come to him through the forgiveness of Christ. I know that u guys may have trouble believing about it. That's how I was when I first came into it. But as u look and learn more about it, things will start to come true about God and who he really is. That's what happened with me.
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:16 pm
I am running on faith. I know that there's been research that proves the Bible correct and I know that there is a God because how else would miracles happen?
My friend went to a concert of a girl she knows. The singer that my friend knows has a limp and they prayed for her and right then and there her shorter leg grew to normal size. If that's not God's doing, I don't know what is.
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Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:39 pm
christiansk8rgurl22 I am running on faith. I know that there's been research that proves the Bible correct and I know that there is a God because how else would miracles happen? My friend went to a concert of a girl she knows. The singer that my friend knows has a limp and they prayed for her and right then and there her shorter leg grew to normal size. If that's not God's doing, I don't know what is. Trust me, most miracles are not the works of a god or goddess, there is no reason for such a powerful being to involve itself in the petty affairs of a single human. The only time they would do such would be if that human was to play a part in some plan or was an important figure to that god or goddess. More likely something more rational and more easily explainable occurred before your friends eyes. Also do i have to point out that posts like that just annoy me beyond all belief. Your asking us to place the same blind faith that you have in YOUR god in ourselves. Actually find visible or tangible proof(that can be proven from an unbiased source) that your god and his so called son exist and ill be willing to listen to your preaching.
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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:01 pm
Personally I'm not against Science or Religion, and am religious myself.
I'm more interested in one thing about religions, or more specifically, whatever texts they may use as a basis for their faith.
The thing is, such texts, while playing the important part they do in beliefs, are open to interpretation. Most religions are more focused upon a single interpretation.
In many such cases of interpretation, Science and Religion can coexist, for example:
If you were to recieve an intelligent answer from an Atheist about why they do not believe in (for example) Christianity, nine times out of then they would point to science.
The reason Science and Christianty can't seem to coexist all traces back to one thing, how it is written in the bible that god created the universe in 7 days.
Here's where the interpretation part comes in, how long is a "day"? 24 hours? On Earth yes, on Mercury a day is several hours.
Can anyone ever possibly explain to me why a day in Heaven could not be several bilion Earth Years?
The bible says got "created" the Earth, and many have gotten into thinking that this mean that he instantly willed it into existence. As you should be aware, "created", can mean anything. I can create a sandwhich, right now I'm creating a reply, to this topic, did I magically create it in an instant? No.
Such examples of how interpretation affects such texts to greatly is far too much for a lot of people to wrap their head around.
And you must remember, most of these texts were originally in other languages, and while a translation may be extremely accurate, it can never quite maintain all the intricacies of the original. This could cause many such points where interpretations can branch off.
Another thing with the Bible specifically, It is only a collection of books selected by scholars centuries ago. There are dozens, possibly hundreds of "holy" books that were dismissed from being put into the "Bible" as we know it. Just because It's not in the bible doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, because for all we know, every detail of the theory of evolution could be outlined in these long-forgotten, possibly destroyed books.
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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:41 pm
I'd say just do what makes you happy. If you have to try 100 different beliefs, then try them. You're the only person stopping yourself. =)
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