|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:41 pm
Scriptura Testicular Diabetes Scriptura Testicular Diabetes Scriptura Testicular Diabetes I just don't see how someone who turned away from God can get into Heaven It seems to good to be true. Cuz if that were true then why should we try to be good Christians, I mean if we got saved we go to Heaven. Why put fourth any more effort? Huh? Who's saying this? If someone does not know Christ, they will never be present in Heaven. I honestly have no idea what you mean by this. Ok someone that was a good christian and got saved, then well they start becoming worldly and not caring anymore. They are still saved so they still get to go to Heaven? You're assuming that the person was genuinely saved in the first place when they were not if they end up denying the faith and rejecting Christ in the end. The true Christians are those who persevere to the end because they love God. People change though, they might be a good Christian for awhile but something may happen and they just become worldly. They may call themselves Christians and think that they know God, but the evidence of faith is perseverance and works. If someone ends up falling away, they've proven that they never had true saving faith to begin with. When God saves a man, he is given eternal life. To lose eternal life is like breaking an unbreakable object; it can't happen. So if someone rejects God no matter how long they've called themselves a Christian, it's evident that they were never saved to begin with, because true believers believe to the very end, and only those who believe to the end are saved and are thus true Christians. now that is something that I can agree with.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:09 am
Scriptura Voldemort point two Just playing Devil's advocate here, Scrip: Romans 11:17-21 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. I don't know if you heard this from someone or found this yourself, but this is talking about the Jews who denied Christ for their own man-made traditions and religion and how they will be judged for denying the Messiah. It has nothing to do with Christian apostasy at all. See the verse I bolded. Paul's saying that they Jews were cut off from God, and he's saying that "if God did not spare the natural branches [the Jews], He will not spare you either." I don't see how that's not about falling away from God.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:42 am
Voldemort point two Scriptura Voldemort point two Just playing Devil's advocate here, Scrip: Romans 11:17-21 17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. I don't know if you heard this from someone or found this yourself, but this is talking about the Jews who denied Christ for their own man-made traditions and religion and how they will be judged for denying the Messiah. It has nothing to do with Christian apostasy at all. See the verse I bolded. Paul's saying that they Jews were cut off from God, and he's saying that "if God did not spare the natural branches [the Jews], He will not spare you either." I don't see how that's not about falling away from God. That's a completely different context. It has nothing to do with Christian apostasy. Not all Jews are or were saved unless their sins were forgiven. Those who denied the Christ did not have God in their hearts. God had never promised Jew or Gentile eternal life through Judaism, and they denied the Messiah, who is God in the flesh. They denied God because they clung to their human traditions rather than the Truth of God, so they were cut off. It's not the same as saying one who accepts Christ as Lord and has saving faith, and then loses it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
