Promoting Jesus

[Tirissana]

ferret658

Hot lin78

Some parts are right, some parts are wrong. I'll just say this: Christians believe that Christ died for ALL men. We believe this and that Christ was raised from the dead. This is what makes us Christians. Regardless of what you may think, nothing we do from that point on gives us extra grace or a better position in heaven. Our works come from our love of God and Christ. We're able to do them only by the strength and ability of the Holy Spirit...even though we're saved, we cannot do anything apart from Christ.

The simplicity of salvation is just that...very simple.

So Christ didn't die for you or me because we're not men.
On the contrary. For the works we do for God, our rewards are greater in heaven.
We can do things apart from Christ. They issue is whether or not we succeed in those things we do apart from our savior.

Men, referring to the word human. Men is a genderless term used in the Bible.  

[Fide et Amore]

Well, in the midst of all this debate... I would just like to say, to whoever started this topic, that I quite like your advert wink  

[ferret658]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

ferret658

Hot lin78

Some parts are right, some parts are wrong. I'll just say this: Christians believe that Christ died for ALL men. We believe this and that Christ was raised from the dead. This is what makes us Christians. Regardless of what you may think, nothing we do from that point on gives us extra grace or a better position in heaven. Our works come from our love of God and Christ. We're able to do them only by the strength and ability of the Holy Spirit...even though we're saved, we cannot do anything apart from Christ.

The simplicity of salvation is just that...very simple.

So Christ didn't die for you or me because we're not men.
On the contrary. For the works we do for God, our rewards are greater in heaven.
We can do things apart from Christ. They issue is whether or not we succeed in those things we do apart from our savior.

Men, referring to the word human. Men is a genderless term used in the Bible.

I was making a point. She wasn't using scripture accurately, so I decided to play the part of "lost sheep" and ask a dumb question for her to defend her stand in her faith to get a better answer from her. ^^ It's all part of the master plan, dude.  

[ferret658]

Fide et Amore

Well, in the midst of all this debate... I would just like to say, to whoever started this topic, that I quite like your advert wink

Thank you very much! mrgreen  

[divineseraph]

ferret658

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

ferret658

divineseraph

ferret658

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

I have to agree with divine, he's got a point.

Holy crap, Hell froze over. o.o

Well that's what it says in the Bible. God made it simple because He knew that we're all idiots who like to show off our works. If you believe it, you are in. And you're in for good.

I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people?

Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"?

NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood.

I have to agree with Divine once again. Just saying you believe in Christ isn't going to get your ticket to heaven nor will it save you. Faith without works is a dead faith. neutral

Oh, so my grampa who died last night - a two week old Christian who was unconcsious for the last week and a half of his life isn't going to heaven because he didn't do anything for God because he couldn't? Wow. just wow.

No, you imbecile. It's not a matter of doing a quota of work per week for God. You're committing a terrible stawman logical fallacy. Please stop.

Was he a good person in life? Did he act in harmony with the natural law of God? Did he harm others? Did he conduct himself in a way that was decent and pure? If so, I think he's up above. If he was a crude, rotten, vile, hurtful man his entire life, it doesn't matter how many crosses he clutched, he's still a piece of s**t unworthy of Heaven.

Did he make it? I don't know. That's entirely up to him.  

[Tirissana]

divineseraph

ferret658

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

ferret658

divineseraph

I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people?

Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"?

NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood.

I have to agree with Divine once again. Just saying you believe in Christ isn't going to get your ticket to heaven nor will it save you. Faith without works is a dead faith. neutral

Oh, so my grampa who died last night - a two week old Christian who was unconcsious for the last week and a half of his life isn't going to heaven because he didn't do anything for God because he couldn't? Wow. just wow.

No, you imbecile. It's not a matter of doing a quota of work per week for God. You're committing a terrible stawman logical fallacy. Please stop.

Was he a good person in life? Did he act in harmony with the natural law of God? Did he harm others? Did he conduct himself in a way that was decent and pure? If so, I think he's up above. If he was a crude, rotten, vile, hurtful man his entire life, it doesn't matter how many crosses he clutched, he's still a piece of s**t unworthy of Heaven.

Did he make it? I don't know. That's entirely up to him.

I once again have to agree with divine. Which is causing Hell to freeze over right now.  

[ferret658]

divineseraph

ferret658

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

ferret658

divineseraph

I can't believe it works that way. It's contrary to the entire point of Jesus being such an epic role model. He did what was right, he forgave others, he blessed others, he helped others even when it was unpopular. Even when he was to be KILLED for it. Now how does it make sense for his intention to go from that to "Say my name and you're golden"? Doesn't it make more sense that he would want us to BE that? BE good people?

Doesn't his sacrifice represent being good in a world of evil no matter the cost, rather than simply "Check out how awesome I am, I'm totally God, lawl"?

NO!!! His sacrifice represented Jesus - God Himself taking on the sins of the world! His blood sacrifice was the end of all blood sacrifices! Jesus' sacrifice represents our freedom from the Mosaic Laws! Jesus was God. Jesus is God. Jesus will always be God. Jesus was NOT showing off His divinity! Jesus Christ was fully man to live the blamesless life that we as humans could not live. Jesus Christ was also fully God because the only blood that could atone for all sins for the rest of time is God's blood.

I have to agree with Divine once again. Just saying you believe in Christ isn't going to get your ticket to heaven nor will it save you. Faith without works is a dead faith. neutral

Oh, so my grampa who died last night - a two week old Christian who was unconcsious for the last week and a half of his life isn't going to heaven because he didn't do anything for God because he couldn't? Wow. just wow.

No, you imbecile. It's not a matter of doing a quota of work per week for God. You're committing a terrible stawman logical fallacy. Please stop.

Was he a good person in life? Did he act in harmony with the natural law of God? Did he harm others? Did he conduct himself in a way that was decent and pure? If so, I think he's up above. If he was a crude, rotten, vile, hurtful man his entire life, it doesn't matter how many crosses he clutched, he's still a piece of s**t unworthy of Heaven.

Did he make it? I don't know. That's entirely up to him.

I think you're the one who's the imbecile if you can't accurately read God's word. We are saved through grace alone so that no man can boast about what he's done to get into Heaven.  

[Zukato Nokuchiku]

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.  

[Tirissana]

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

Here's something we're all forgetting and it's a point a friend of mine made yesterday. We all have God in us. We all have the Father in us. Jesus is the son of God, just like I'm bat Hashem. Which means daughter of God in Hebrew. We are all children of God.

A real Christian follows the Love of Agape. A real Christian not only loves God but also loves their neighbor, their brothers and sisters regardless of denomination or religion. Proselytizing isn't showing them love. neutral

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

Christ brought us many teachings like any teacher or Rabbi would do. Jesus wasn't some divine Son. He was like the rest of us. He was a child of God. What the English translations and many holy men within Christianity has done is take away the truth and replace it with legends, and myths.  

[Crimson Raccoon]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

Here's something we're all forgetting and it's a point a friend of mine made yesterday. We all have God in us. We all have the Father in us. Jesus is the son of God, just like I'm bat Hashem. Which means daughter of God in Hebrew. We are all children of God.

What is the basis for your claim, "We all have God in us"? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is given to believers in Jesus Christ; but it nowhere says that the Father is in us, and it certainly doesn't say that everyone has God in them; only believers.

Jesus was not just "a" son of God. He was unique. John poignantly highlights this fact. "“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

The Greek word used here to describe Jesus as being God's son is monogenes. There are two meanings for this word in Greek. 1. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." and 2. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." So, it is obvious that Jesus is not merely a son of God in the same sense that all Christians become children of God by faith. No, Jesus is the one, unique, only begotten Son of God, and as such, he himself is divine.

In the same book, John speaks about Christians being children of God. "The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:9-13.

So, John explains that we become children of God by receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name as the salvation of God. But he makes a clear distinction between that and the unique nature of Jesus' relationship as The Son. And, it's clear that someone is not a child of God if they haven't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. To deny the Son is to deny the Father, and those who do so are not children of God. Jesus warns such people, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:42-44

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

A real Christian follows the Love of Agape. A real Christian not only loves God but also loves their neighbor, their brothers and sisters regardless of denomination or religion. Proselytizing isn't showing them love. neutral

Agape love is God's love, which Christians are called upon to express to their neighbors. The only way you can possibly share God's love to your neighbor is to share God with them. So, it isn't true that "proselytizing" isn't showing love. For one thing, please be aware that you yourself are proselytizing in that post. You have an opinion or belief, and you are trying to convince everyone here that yours is right and theirs is wrong. That's proselytizing. Why is it different if my belief is in Christ's divinity? Then it's not okay to share that belief?

If Christians believe that we all deserve to go to hell because of our sin, and if we believe that the message of the gospel can save anyone, then it would be hateful if we don't share that message with others. If I see someone walking down a road, and I know there's a trap for them a few feet ahead, I would be a hateful person if I didn't even try to warn them. If I know there's a bomb in a car, and I see the owner walking toward it, wouldn't it be the right and loving thing to tell them, "Hey, you might not want to get in that car, since there's a bomb in it and all"? I could ignore them and continue on my way, just out of laziness or trying to avoid the drama, but the truly loving thing to do would be to try to warn them no matter what.

Christ was certainly following agape love. He did the most proselytizing of all.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

For creation, both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit all took an active part in the Creation. Genesis 1 specifically mentions the Spirit of God. Notice also in the creation account in Genesis, that God refers to himself in the plural first person, "Let us do this," etc. John in the first chapter of his Gospel describes the active role that Christ took in Creation. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:2-3. Also, Paul speaks of Jesus taking part in Creation: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." - Colossians 1:16.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Christ brought us many teachings like any teacher or Rabbi would do. Jesus wasn't some divine Son. He was like the rest of us. He was a child of God. What the English translations and many holy men within Christianity has done is take away the truth and replace it with legends, and myths.

Jesus was a divine Son, and the claim that it's just the English translators who skew it is false. It's the Greek word monogenes that actually highlights his unique one-of-a-kind relationship to God, even more clearly than the English word "Son" does.

Also, it's important to remember that the New Testament writings weren't the first to speak about Jesus. He was prophesied numerous times in the Old Testament, and they also describe him as unique, divine, and of a special connection with the Father.

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
- Isaiah 9:6

Notice that this prophecy refers to Jesus not only as a son who will be born, but also calls him "Mighty God" himself -- and even refers to him as the Everlasting Father!! It makes it clear, hundreds of years before Christ came, that he is himself God and that he is One with the Father. Just as Jesus himself said, just as his apostles said.


As Jesus and his disciples taught, we can all be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. God really does dwell within us, through his Holy Spirit, when we put our faith in Him. We really do become the children of God; when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, he also becomes our brother and friend, and we will live with him forever in the presence of the Father, rejoicing with all our brothers and sisters. This promise is available for everyone to claim for themselves. Jesus has opened the way to God, through his sacrifice. Take hold of it! =)  

[Tirissana]

Crimson Raccoon

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

Here's something we're all forgetting and it's a point a friend of mine made yesterday. We all have God in us. We all have the Father in us. Jesus is the son of God, just like I'm bat Hashem. Which means daughter of God in Hebrew. We are all children of God.

What is the basis for your claim, "We all have God in us"? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is given to believers in Jesus Christ; but it nowhere says that the Father is in us, and it certainly doesn't say that everyone has God in them; only believers.

Jesus was not just "a" son of God. He was unique. John poignantly highlights this fact. "“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

The Greek word used here to describe Jesus as being God's son is monogenes. There are two meanings for this word in Greek. 1. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." and 2. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." So, it is obvious that Jesus is not merely a son of God in the same sense that all Christians become children of God by faith. No, Jesus is the one, unique, only begotten Son of God, and as such, he himself is divine.

In the same book, John speaks about Christians being children of God. "The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:9-13.

So, John explains that we become children of God by receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name as the salvation of God. But he makes a clear distinction between that and the unique nature of Jesus' relationship as The Son. And, it's clear that someone is not a child of God if they haven't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. To deny the Son is to deny the Father, and those who do so are not children of God. Jesus warns such people, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:42-44

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

A real Christian follows the Love of Agape. A real Christian not only loves God but also loves their neighbor, their brothers and sisters regardless of denomination or religion. Proselytizing isn't showing them love. neutral

Agape love is God's love, which Christians are called upon to express to their neighbors. The only way you can possibly share God's love to your neighbor is to share God with them. So, it isn't true that "proselytizing" isn't showing love. For one thing, please be aware that you yourself are proselytizing in that post. You have an opinion or belief, and you are trying to convince everyone here that yours is right and theirs is wrong. That's proselytizing. Why is it different if my belief is in Christ's divinity? Then it's not okay to share that belief?

If Christians believe that we all deserve to go to hell because of our sin, and if we believe that the message of the gospel can save anyone, then it would be hateful if we don't share that message with others. If I see someone walking down a road, and I know there's a trap for them a few feet ahead, I would be a hateful person if I didn't even try to warn them. If I know there's a bomb in a car, and I see the owner walking toward it, wouldn't it be the right and loving thing to tell them, "Hey, you might not want to get in that car, since there's a bomb in it and all"? I could ignore them and continue on my way, just out of laziness or trying to avoid the drama, but the truly loving thing to do would be to try to warn them no matter what.

Christ was certainly following agape love. He did the most proselytizing of all.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

For creation, both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit all took an active part in the Creation. Genesis 1 specifically mentions the Spirit of God. Notice also in the creation account in Genesis, that God refers to himself in the plural first person, "Let us do this," etc. John in the first chapter of his Gospel describes the active role that Christ took in Creation. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:2-3. Also, Paul speaks of Jesus taking part in Creation: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." - Colossians 1:16.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Christ brought us many teachings like any teacher or Rabbi would do. Jesus wasn't some divine Son. He was like the rest of us. He was a child of God. What the English translations and many holy men within Christianity has done is take away the truth and replace it with legends, and myths.

Jesus was a divine Son, and the claim that it's just the English translators who skew it is false. It's the Greek word monogenes that actually highlights his unique one-of-a-kind relationship to God, even more clearly than the English word "Son" does.

Also, it's important to remember that the New Testament writings weren't the first to speak about Jesus. He was prophesied numerous times in the Old Testament, and they also describe him as unique, divine, and of a special connection with the Father.

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
- Isaiah 9:6

Notice that this prophecy refers to Jesus not only as a son who will be born, but also calls him "Mighty God" himself -- and even refers to him as the Everlasting Father!! It makes it clear, hundreds of years before Christ came, that he is himself God and that he is One with the Father. Just as Jesus himself said, just as his apostles said.


As Jesus and his disciples taught, we can all be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. God really does dwell within us, through his Holy Spirit, when we put our faith in Him. We really do become the children of God; when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, he also becomes our brother and friend, and we will live with him forever in the presence of the Father, rejoicing with all our brothers and sisters. This promise is available for everyone to claim for themselves. Jesus has opened the way to God, through his sacrifice. Take hold of it! =)

Refer to James 2:14-20. neutral  

[Tirissana]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Crimson Raccoon

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

Here's something we're all forgetting and it's a point a friend of mine made yesterday. We all have God in us. We all have the Father in us. Jesus is the son of God, just like I'm bat Hashem. Which means daughter of God in Hebrew. We are all children of God.

What is the basis for your claim, "We all have God in us"? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is given to believers in Jesus Christ; but it nowhere says that the Father is in us, and it certainly doesn't say that everyone has God in them; only believers.

Jesus was not just "a" son of God. He was unique. John poignantly highlights this fact. "“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

The Greek word used here to describe Jesus as being God's son is monogenes. There are two meanings for this word in Greek. 1. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." and 2. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." So, it is obvious that Jesus is not merely a son of God in the same sense that all Christians become children of God by faith. No, Jesus is the one, unique, only begotten Son of God, and as such, he himself is divine.

In the same book, John speaks about Christians being children of God. "The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:9-13.

So, John explains that we become children of God by receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name as the salvation of God. But he makes a clear distinction between that and the unique nature of Jesus' relationship as The Son. And, it's clear that someone is not a child of God if they haven't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. To deny the Son is to deny the Father, and those who do so are not children of God. Jesus warns such people, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:42-44

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

A real Christian follows the Love of Agape. A real Christian not only loves God but also loves their neighbor, their brothers and sisters regardless of denomination or religion. Proselytizing isn't showing them love. neutral

Agape love is God's love, which Christians are called upon to express to their neighbors. The only way you can possibly share God's love to your neighbor is to share God with them. So, it isn't true that "proselytizing" isn't showing love. For one thing, please be aware that you yourself are proselytizing in that post. You have an opinion or belief, and you are trying to convince everyone here that yours is right and theirs is wrong. That's proselytizing. Why is it different if my belief is in Christ's divinity? Then it's not okay to share that belief?

If Christians believe that we all deserve to go to hell because of our sin, and if we believe that the message of the gospel can save anyone, then it would be hateful if we don't share that message with others. If I see someone walking down a road, and I know there's a trap for them a few feet ahead, I would be a hateful person if I didn't even try to warn them. If I know there's a bomb in a car, and I see the owner walking toward it, wouldn't it be the right and loving thing to tell them, "Hey, you might not want to get in that car, since there's a bomb in it and all"? I could ignore them and continue on my way, just out of laziness or trying to avoid the drama, but the truly loving thing to do would be to try to warn them no matter what.

Christ was certainly following agape love. He did the most proselytizing of all.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

For creation, both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit all took an active part in the Creation. Genesis 1 specifically mentions the Spirit of God. Notice also in the creation account in Genesis, that God refers to himself in the plural first person, "Let us do this," etc. John in the first chapter of his Gospel describes the active role that Christ took in Creation. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:2-3. Also, Paul speaks of Jesus taking part in Creation: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." - Colossians 1:16.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Christ brought us many teachings like any teacher or Rabbi would do. Jesus wasn't some divine Son. He was like the rest of us. He was a child of God. What the English translations and many holy men within Christianity has done is take away the truth and replace it with legends, and myths.

Jesus was a divine Son, and the claim that it's just the English translators who skew it is false. It's the Greek word monogenes that actually highlights his unique one-of-a-kind relationship to God, even more clearly than the English word "Son" does.

Also, it's important to remember that the New Testament writings weren't the first to speak about Jesus. He was prophesied numerous times in the Old Testament, and they also describe him as unique, divine, and of a special connection with the Father.

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
- Isaiah 9:6

Notice that this prophecy refers to Jesus not only as a son who will be born, but also calls him "Mighty God" himself -- and even refers to him as the Everlasting Father!! It makes it clear, hundreds of years before Christ came, that he is himself God and that he is One with the Father. Just as Jesus himself said, just as his apostles said.


As Jesus and his disciples taught, we can all be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. God really does dwell within us, through his Holy Spirit, when we put our faith in Him. We really do become the children of God; when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, he also becomes our brother and friend, and we will live with him forever in the presence of the Father, rejoicing with all our brothers and sisters. This promise is available for everyone to claim for themselves. Jesus has opened the way to God, through his sacrifice. Take hold of it! =)

Refer to James 2:14-20. neutral

Also, m-w.com disagrees with you. biggrin

Quote:

* Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize
* Pronunciation: ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz
* Function: verb
* Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
* Date: 1679

intransitive verb 1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or causetransitive verb : to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

— pros·e·ly·ti·za·tion ˌprä-s(ə-)lə-tə-ˈzā-shən, ˌprä-sə-ˌlī-tə- noun

— pros·e·ly·tiz·er ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtī-zər noun

I'm not trying to convert anyone, all I'm doing is trying to do is get people to think more logically. neutral

 

[Crimson Raccoon]

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Crimson Raccoon

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

Here's something we're all forgetting and it's a point a friend of mine made yesterday. We all have God in us. We all have the Father in us. Jesus is the son of God, just like I'm bat Hashem. Which means daughter of God in Hebrew. We are all children of God.

What is the basis for your claim, "We all have God in us"? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is given to believers in Jesus Christ; but it nowhere says that the Father is in us, and it certainly doesn't say that everyone has God in them; only believers.

Jesus was not just "a" son of God. He was unique. John poignantly highlights this fact. "“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

The Greek word used here to describe Jesus as being God's son is monogenes. There are two meanings for this word in Greek. 1. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." and 2. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." So, it is obvious that Jesus is not merely a son of God in the same sense that all Christians become children of God by faith. No, Jesus is the one, unique, only begotten Son of God, and as such, he himself is divine.

In the same book, John speaks about Christians being children of God. "The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:9-13.

So, John explains that we become children of God by receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name as the salvation of God. But he makes a clear distinction between that and the unique nature of Jesus' relationship as The Son. And, it's clear that someone is not a child of God if they haven't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. To deny the Son is to deny the Father, and those who do so are not children of God. Jesus warns such people, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:42-44

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

A real Christian follows the Love of Agape. A real Christian not only loves God but also loves their neighbor, their brothers and sisters regardless of denomination or religion. Proselytizing isn't showing them love. neutral

Agape love is God's love, which Christians are called upon to express to their neighbors. The only way you can possibly share God's love to your neighbor is to share God with them. So, it isn't true that "proselytizing" isn't showing love. For one thing, please be aware that you yourself are proselytizing in that post. You have an opinion or belief, and you are trying to convince everyone here that yours is right and theirs is wrong. That's proselytizing. Why is it different if my belief is in Christ's divinity? Then it's not okay to share that belief?

If Christians believe that we all deserve to go to hell because of our sin, and if we believe that the message of the gospel can save anyone, then it would be hateful if we don't share that message with others. If I see someone walking down a road, and I know there's a trap for them a few feet ahead, I would be a hateful person if I didn't even try to warn them. If I know there's a bomb in a car, and I see the owner walking toward it, wouldn't it be the right and loving thing to tell them, "Hey, you might not want to get in that car, since there's a bomb in it and all"? I could ignore them and continue on my way, just out of laziness or trying to avoid the drama, but the truly loving thing to do would be to try to warn them no matter what.

Christ was certainly following agape love. He did the most proselytizing of all.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

For creation, both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit all took an active part in the Creation. Genesis 1 specifically mentions the Spirit of God. Notice also in the creation account in Genesis, that God refers to himself in the plural first person, "Let us do this," etc. John in the first chapter of his Gospel describes the active role that Christ took in Creation. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:2-3. Also, Paul speaks of Jesus taking part in Creation: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." - Colossians 1:16.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Christ brought us many teachings like any teacher or Rabbi would do. Jesus wasn't some divine Son. He was like the rest of us. He was a child of God. What the English translations and many holy men within Christianity has done is take away the truth and replace it with legends, and myths.

Jesus was a divine Son, and the claim that it's just the English translators who skew it is false. It's the Greek word monogenes that actually highlights his unique one-of-a-kind relationship to God, even more clearly than the English word "Son" does.

Also, it's important to remember that the New Testament writings weren't the first to speak about Jesus. He was prophesied numerous times in the Old Testament, and they also describe him as unique, divine, and of a special connection with the Father.

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
- Isaiah 9:6

Notice that this prophecy refers to Jesus not only as a son who will be born, but also calls him "Mighty God" himself -- and even refers to him as the Everlasting Father!! It makes it clear, hundreds of years before Christ came, that he is himself God and that he is One with the Father. Just as Jesus himself said, just as his apostles said.


As Jesus and his disciples taught, we can all be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. God really does dwell within us, through his Holy Spirit, when we put our faith in Him. We really do become the children of God; when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, he also becomes our brother and friend, and we will live with him forever in the presence of the Father, rejoicing with all our brothers and sisters. This promise is available for everyone to claim for themselves. Jesus has opened the way to God, through his sacrifice. Take hold of it! =)

Refer to James 2:14-20. neutral

I'm not seeing how this passage relates to anything I said. The issues you raised, which I responded to in my post, were:

Is God in all of us?
Was Jesus merely a son of God in the same way we are all children of God, or was he something more?
Is it wrong to try to share your faith with others and try to convince them of it?
Did Jesus have anything to do with the Creation?
Was Jesus' divinity made up by English translators and biased clergymen over the years, or does it have it's roots in the original Christian documents, and even farther back into the Old Testament?

This verse in James, as far as I understand it, does not impact any of these issues. Please explain. Also, feel free to reply to my explanation of these issues, you don't need to ignore them! =)

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Also, m-w.com disagrees with you. biggrin

Quote:

* Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize
* Pronunciation: ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz
* Function: verb
* Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
* Date: 1679

intransitive verb 1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or causetransitive verb : to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

— pros·e·ly·ti·za·tion ˌprä-s(ə-)lə-tə-ˈzā-shən, ˌprä-sə-ˌlī-tə- noun

— pros·e·ly·tiz·er ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtī-zər noun

I'm not trying to convert anyone, all I'm doing is trying to do is get people to think more logically. neutral

"Proselytize" is usually used in reference to religious belief, but in general it can apply to any belief or opinion. American Heritage Dictionary provides the following definition for its use as a transitive verb: "To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another." It doesn't need to just be a religious belief, it can be any belief or opinion. You believe that it is wrong to proselytize, and you are trying to convince others of that belief. Thus, you are proselytizing others to believe that it is wrong to proselytize. If you aren't trying to convince anyone of your opinions, then what are you arguing for? Just for the sake of arguing? If your goal is to convince anyone of your belief or opinion, then by definition that is proselytizing in the general use of the term. And there is nothing wrong with doing that, but for some reason you think it's wrong if I try to convince anyone of things I believe. I disagree, I think the marketplace of ideas should be an open market, free for exchanging.


Why base your reply around the definition of a single word, rather than addressing any of the issues you brought up that I responded to? You made several claims, and I challenged them. Do you defend them, or have you changed your mind about them?  

[Tirissana]

Crimson Raccoon

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Crimson Raccoon

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

Here's something we're all forgetting and it's a point a friend of mine made yesterday. We all have God in us. We all have the Father in us. Jesus is the son of God, just like I'm bat Hashem. Which means daughter of God in Hebrew. We are all children of God.

What is the basis for your claim, "We all have God in us"? The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is given to believers in Jesus Christ; but it nowhere says that the Father is in us, and it certainly doesn't say that everyone has God in them; only believers.

Jesus was not just "a" son of God. He was unique. John poignantly highlights this fact. "“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." - John 3:16-18

The Greek word used here to describe Jesus as being God's son is monogenes. There are two meanings for this word in Greek. 1. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." and 2. "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." So, it is obvious that Jesus is not merely a son of God in the same sense that all Christians become children of God by faith. No, Jesus is the one, unique, only begotten Son of God, and as such, he himself is divine.

In the same book, John speaks about Christians being children of God. "The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." - John 1:9-13.

So, John explains that we become children of God by receiving Jesus Christ and believing in his name as the salvation of God. But he makes a clear distinction between that and the unique nature of Jesus' relationship as The Son. And, it's clear that someone is not a child of God if they haven't accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior. To deny the Son is to deny the Father, and those who do so are not children of God. Jesus warns such people, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." - John 8:42-44

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

A real Christian follows the Love of Agape. A real Christian not only loves God but also loves their neighbor, their brothers and sisters regardless of denomination or religion. Proselytizing isn't showing them love. neutral

Agape love is God's love, which Christians are called upon to express to their neighbors. The only way you can possibly share God's love to your neighbor is to share God with them. So, it isn't true that "proselytizing" isn't showing love. For one thing, please be aware that you yourself are proselytizing in that post. You have an opinion or belief, and you are trying to convince everyone here that yours is right and theirs is wrong. That's proselytizing. Why is it different if my belief is in Christ's divinity? Then it's not okay to share that belief?

If Christians believe that we all deserve to go to hell because of our sin, and if we believe that the message of the gospel can save anyone, then it would be hateful if we don't share that message with others. If I see someone walking down a road, and I know there's a trap for them a few feet ahead, I would be a hateful person if I didn't even try to warn them. If I know there's a bomb in a car, and I see the owner walking toward it, wouldn't it be the right and loving thing to tell them, "Hey, you might not want to get in that car, since there's a bomb in it and all"? I could ignore them and continue on my way, just out of laziness or trying to avoid the drama, but the truly loving thing to do would be to try to warn them no matter what.

Christ was certainly following agape love. He did the most proselytizing of all.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

For creation, both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit all took an active part in the Creation. Genesis 1 specifically mentions the Spirit of God. Notice also in the creation account in Genesis, that God refers to himself in the plural first person, "Let us do this," etc. John in the first chapter of his Gospel describes the active role that Christ took in Creation. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:2-3. Also, Paul speaks of Jesus taking part in Creation: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." - Colossians 1:16.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Christ brought us many teachings like any teacher or Rabbi would do. Jesus wasn't some divine Son. He was like the rest of us. He was a child of God. What the English translations and many holy men within Christianity has done is take away the truth and replace it with legends, and myths.

Jesus was a divine Son, and the claim that it's just the English translators who skew it is false. It's the Greek word monogenes that actually highlights his unique one-of-a-kind relationship to God, even more clearly than the English word "Son" does.

Also, it's important to remember that the New Testament writings weren't the first to speak about Jesus. He was prophesied numerous times in the Old Testament, and they also describe him as unique, divine, and of a special connection with the Father.

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
- Isaiah 9:6

Notice that this prophecy refers to Jesus not only as a son who will be born, but also calls him "Mighty God" himself -- and even refers to him as the Everlasting Father!! It makes it clear, hundreds of years before Christ came, that he is himself God and that he is One with the Father. Just as Jesus himself said, just as his apostles said.


As Jesus and his disciples taught, we can all be forgiven of our sins and have a personal relationship with God. God really does dwell within us, through his Holy Spirit, when we put our faith in Him. We really do become the children of God; when we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, he also becomes our brother and friend, and we will live with him forever in the presence of the Father, rejoicing with all our brothers and sisters. This promise is available for everyone to claim for themselves. Jesus has opened the way to God, through his sacrifice. Take hold of it! =)

Refer to James 2:14-20. neutral

I'm not seeing how this passage relates to anything I said. The issues you raised, which I responded to in my post, were:

Is God in all of us?
Was Jesus merely a son of God in the same way we are all children of God, or was he something more?
Is it wrong to try to share your faith with others and try to convince them of it?
Did Jesus have anything to do with the Creation?
Was Jesus' divinity made up by English translators and biased clergymen over the years, or does it have it's roots in the original Christian documents, and even farther back into the Old Testament?

This verse in James, as far as I understand it, does not impact any of these issues. Please explain. Also, feel free to reply to my explanation of these issues, you don't need to ignore them! =)

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

Also, m-w.com disagrees with you. biggrin

Quote:

* Main Entry: pros·e·ly·tize
* Pronunciation: ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz
* Function: verb
* Inflected Form(s): pros·e·ly·tized; pros·e·ly·tiz·ing
* Date: 1679

intransitive verb 1 : to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2 : to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or causetransitive verb : to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

— pros·e·ly·ti·za·tion ˌprä-s(ə-)lə-tə-ˈzā-shən, ˌprä-sə-ˌlī-tə- noun

— pros·e·ly·tiz·er ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtī-zər noun

I'm not trying to convert anyone, all I'm doing is trying to do is get people to think more logically. neutral

"Proselytize" is usually used in reference to religious belief, but in general it can apply to any belief or opinion. American Heritage Dictionary provides the following definition for its use as a transitive verb: "To convert (a person) from one belief, doctrine, cause, or faith to another." It doesn't need to just be a religious belief, it can be any belief or opinion. You believe that it is wrong to proselytize, and you are trying to convince others of that belief. Thus, you are proselytizing others to believe that it is wrong to proselytize. If you aren't trying to convince anyone of your opinions, then what are you arguing for? Just for the sake of arguing? If your goal is to convince anyone of your belief or opinion, then by definition that is proselytizing in the general use of the term. And there is nothing wrong with doing that, but for some reason you think it's wrong if I try to convince anyone of things I believe. I disagree, I think the marketplace of ideas should be an open market, free for exchanging.


Why base your reply around the definition of a single word, rather than addressing any of the issues you brought up that I responded to? You made several claims, and I challenged them. Do you defend them, or have you changed your mind about them?

James 2:14-20 basically states that it's pointless to have faith without works. That faith without works is nothing more than a dead faith. That dead faith is completely useless. neutral

Why pull definitions of words out of your arse? neutral Just admit you have no clue what you're talking about and no evidence to back it up with. neutral  

[Zukato Nokuchiku]

P E T T O S

I think Crimson wrote just excellent. No human being is actually good, no one really deserves Heaven, didn't you read his posts Seraph? You wrote that "was he a good person in life?" to Ferret, but the thing is; no human being is really good. No human being is either pure, good, or worthy of Heaven. This is the Christian view, and its exactly why we need Christ. "If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother." (1 John 4:20,21)

See this? We all are liars, adulterers in heart and murderers in heart aswell. Remember that; it isn't Christianitys responsibility to make good people, rather, it is Christianity's many points about humans to show that they really arent good (ever). God is the only one deserving to be called, Good.

"If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15)

And what does God commands? Love one another, and more importantly, love God with all your heart. This is the real deal. It is said that Hitler was a catholic (not sure wether this is true), a good question would be, did he obey God's commandments? If he really was loving God, he would had obeyed Him. A real Christian knows what to do. But, a christian don't becomes perfect or good just for obeying God, we are just saved. Do not forget that Jesus apostles didn't just do good works for people, they deserve it, no, they mainly did it because God told them to do it and to serve the Lord.

Its all thanks to Christ.

-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden

And it's not all thanks to Christ, but thanks to God. Without God, do you think Jesus would be here? Do you think any of us would be here? Who is the creator I ask you? Who created you? Was it the Father or the Son?

Crimson Raccoon

For creation, both the Father and the Son, as well as the Spirit all took an active part in the Creation. Genesis 1 specifically mentions the Spirit of God. Notice also in the creation account in Genesis, that God refers to himself in the plural first person, "Let us do this," etc. John in the first chapter of his Gospel describes the active role that Christ took in Creation. "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made." - John 1:2-3. Also, Paul speaks of Jesus taking part in Creation: "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him." - Colossians 1:16.quote]

Not to mention John 8:12-59. It shows us that Jesus indeed "was before" Abraham was born, another claim made by the God in the flesh.

The Validity of Jesus' Testimony
12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."

22This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?"

23But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[a] you will indeed die in your sins."

25"Who are you?" they asked.

"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26"I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world."

27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him.

The Children of Abraham
31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
33They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?"

34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.[c]"

39"Abraham is our father," they answered.

"If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would[d] do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does."
"We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

The Children of the Devil
42Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."
The Claims of Jesus About Himself
48The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
49"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

52At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.