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Knocking "Sense" Into Someone!

Whether you're a Christian,a Muslim,an Atheist,or anything else...I'm sure you must have stumbled upon a few religious debates in your lifetime.Maybe even decided to follow one to see what happens?

Whatever we happen to believe in,most of us will agree on one thing:Religious debates can be very entertaining!

However,though some of us will not admit it,is that these debates tend to be futile,and often actually end up strengthening the opposition's conviction that they are right,instead of convincing the otherwise.

The problem with religious debates is that both sides are trying to attack the very core of what the other side believes in.

I'm not an expert on the human mind...But this is a subject that very much interests me.

The human mind is a pretentious thing,and we don't like to be shown that we are wrong,even in the face of solid evidence.

Even though this may not apply to all of us on all levels,(for example,many people don't mind being shown that they were wrong about something silly),it's a different thing when something comes along that challenges the very core of what we believe in,or what we believe to be the absolute truth.

Many will even admit that,if it weren't for their belief system,they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

I'm kind of branching off into several different topics here but...I'll try to go on a bit longer.

My questions are:

Besides the reasons that we all know about why someone would believe in a certain thing...Do you think there may be "hidden" reasons as well,like fear or despair,that we wouldn't admit even to ourselves?

If you have absolute certainty that what you believe in is right,and what the other person believes in is wrong,but at the same time you don't want to cause any damage to the other person,do you think there is a way to go about convincing them to switch over to your belief system?

Have you thoroughly examined your own belief system?Have you ever found flaws in it that made you doubt it?

What would you do if you were presented with overwhelming evidence showing that you were wrong all along?Or,have you ever even considered this possibility?

Would you open your mind more to another belief system if you were introduced to it by someone you have strong feelings for?

What if your belief system required that you do something that just doesn't feel right inside...Would you do it?


Alright,I'm sorry I jumped to the questions so quickly...I wanted to develop more into this subject,but it's late at night and I'm going brain-dead,so I thought I should wrap things up before I stop saying things the way I want to.I don't want to sound confusing.I may decide to edit this later to add more depth(and definitely more color).

Go ahead and answer any and all questions.
I may add more based on your suggestions.
If a particular question feels uncomfortable,you don't have to answer it.
You don't HAVE to be answering the questions either;I welcome people to share their thoughts.

Please be respectful,and don't try to force your beliefs on someone else(there are other places for that).
If this is to turn into a debate,then let it be a debate about the human mind,and not a religious debate.

Besides the reasons that we all know about why someone would believe in a certain thing...Do you think there may be "hidden" reasons as well,like fear or despair,that we wouldn't admit even to ourselves?

did you ever hear of the JoHari window? these two guys, who were academics i believe, named Joe and harry, devised this four part grid, like an old window with two panes above and two below. One pane contains things you know about yourself and so does everyone else. Another contains things only you know, but nobody else knows about you. The third is what others know about you but you do not, and the fourth is what is still part of you but nobody knows it, not even you.
Which is going a long way to say "yes".

If you have absolute certainty that what you believe in is right,and what the other person believes in is wrong,but at the same time you don't want to cause any damage to the other person,do you think there is a way to go about convincing them to switch over to your belief system?

i try to be a friend when possible, look for a "teachable moment", recommend some good authors (especially respected ones such as Milton and so on), and never lie when asked my opinion about something. i do not want to deprive my friend of her freedom of conscience, but i will not lie to protect it.

Have you thoroughly examined your own belief system?

yes, before deciding on my faith, i tested literally dozens of others, including worship and fellowship groups.

Have you ever found flaws in it that made you doubt it?

sure we have flaws; we can be timid and withdrawn, we can be ingrown, we can be proud of our virtues and that even includes being proud of humility!

What would you do if you were presented with overwhelming evidence showing that you were wrong all along?

i have seen many attempts to provide overwhelming evidence of many things, and i do not believe that life reolves around overwhelming evidence. that is too rationalistic for me. if i found that my fellow believers were doing evil, that would change my mind. but logical evidence has never changed my mind about anything.

Or,have you ever even considered this possibility?

Would you open your mind more to another belief system if you were introduced to it by someone you have strong feelings for?

i always consider myself a seeker and am glad to discuss traditions and beliefs, whether i have strong feelings for you or not. but i would just as soon be friends!

What if your belief system required that you do something that just doesn't feel right inside...Would you do it?

no. but then again, my belief system says that if something feels wrong inside, it probably IS!!
xd

Besides the reasons that we all know about why someone would believe in a certain thing...Do you think there may be "hidden" reasons as well,like fear or despair,that we wouldn't admit even to ourselves?

Yes it happens all the time, but with faith people grow into believing that it is true. When fear pries into me I just think of how the Christian religion exploded after the resurrection of Jesus, or I think of how if none of it were true if it were all a lie there would be no way that Paul, John, Peter or anybody else would die for their belief.

If you have absolute certainty that what you believe in is right,and what the other person believes in is wrong,but at the same time you don't want to cause any damage to the other person,do you think there is a way to go about convincing them to switch over to your belief system?

No man was able to convince Saul except for God. Just what of chance do I stand? I suppose I may try but it is up to them whether they listen. I tend to stay out of that area mostly because it frustrates people.

Have you thoroughly examined your own belief system?Have you ever found flaws in it that made you doubt it?

I have found theories that seem quite interesting for my doubts. Noah's ark and how it could have happened was full of a lot of flaws but unexplained phenomenons on the earths crust as well as the lifespan of reptiles can help fit pieces together.

What would you do if you were presented with overwhelming evidence showing that you were wrong all along?Or,have you ever even considered this possibility?

I have considered the possibility and overwhelming or not nothing can unravel what time has done. My belief stands firm.

Would you open your mind more to another belief system if you were introduced to it by someone you have strong feelings for?

I do have an open mind of other religions. However, I will not practice another's religion. I'm sure that if we can both swallow our differences and pride of our separate religions then we could live life.

What if your belief system required that you do something that just doesn't feel right inside...Would you do it?

God commanded that Abraham kill his son Isaac. If given something similar from no one other than God I would carry it out.

I take it you haven't read the "debate" against creationism in the guild then.
Differs from person to person
Differs from person to person. If you would like my personal experiences that have affected my views, I'm willing to share though.
Because spiritual/psychological development is unique for each person.
Nope there is no clear cut answer to this.
This might explain why many in my particular religion believes that the spirit is seated in the soul. In my tradition, the soul correlates to one's psychological make up and makes up for lack a better term a "false self". Hiding in the soul is the spirit which is the "true self". In my particular tradition too the point of the rituals and spiritual development is to rid one's self of various "treasures" that make up the soul so all that is left is the spirit. What is the "true self" is not one I can answer because I have not reached this yet, nor do I know anyone that has reached it, but what I do know is that reaching my "true self" on my path is related to following agape
Not at all. ^^ I enjoy these types of talk.

If we had that, AI would be perfected finally. I would think anyway?
That's what my religion teaches. We are all made in God's image. I'm slowly coming around to recognizing that.

That doesn't seem to far-fetched. Pretty believable too.
That and various chemical im/balances

It would give people to rack there brains with. Also would encourage arrogant people such as myself to force an answer.

As a practicing Gnostic, I am expected to be an expert on the human mind, specifically my own. Sometimes I still fail miserably, though not nearly as often as I used to! One of the tenants of Christian Gnosticism is to question everything; The truth is unassailable, and when everything else falls flat, the truth will still be standing.I had that challenge, when God pulled me from the brink of atheism. What a wonderful day in the neighborhood that was!hmmmmmmm, not me. This is not something I would have picked for myself. I was living a life of wine, women and song, and hoped I would die young and leave a good looking corpse! First, I have to qualify the word "believe". To a Gnostic, it means "follow". The whole world operates on belief; we believe our money has value, that we will have a job tomorrow, that our spouse will never leave us. "Belief" usually falls flat on it's face. Rather, we identify those things that we know, and also those things that we believe, and reincorporate them in a process of individuation; thereon, we can honestly say, "I don't know this, but I believe this." Then belief becomes unassailable, until it is overwhelmed by knowledge. Our belief system demands that we search for flaws, and alter our beliefs accordingly. Again, I started as an atheist, and when God made His presence known, I had a whole world constructed of card houses fluttering to the floor all around me.No. There is a vast difference between believing and knowing. I would never be happy just believing. It can't happen. Not unless God does a one hundred eighty degree turn. Then I would go my way.
One of the things that I had to accept, is that when God is portrayed as doing something that is immoral(not Good), then whoever painted that portrait lied. God is NOT less than we are. Ever.Very thought provoking questions. Thank you for your post!