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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:00 pm
This may be a touchy subject, no pun intended, but why do some christians say *tries to use good language* that oral sex and masturbation are sinful? Cuz what about same-sex relationships? There's only so much pleasure you can get without eating out or using a vibrator......if you get my drift.
Thank you,
--Sonny!
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 8:59 pm
Sacred Scripture never specifies either of those except masturbation was considered the act of children and a thorn in the side from growing spiritually.
It was an act of sin for a male to "spill his seed" as was recorded in the Torah when Judah did so while in the act of infidelity, adultery and incest, all at the same time with his son's wife. Why this is documented as sinful is explained in the Babylonian Talmud, which my memory is fuzzy as to its reasons at this moment.
Other than that, oral sex is not spoken of, except it does statre that one is not to put anything vulgar into one's mouth. If this is in reference to genitalia, then its left to interpretation.
Personally I find oral intercourse as not sinful. As long as it is not holding one back from growing daily towards Union with God, whats the issue?
Masturbation, no matter how one tries to justify it is lust which I have yet to have it explained to me as not a sinful act. It is an act which left to the imagination causes one to stumble. It is also something which binds one person to stagnartion, which ceases growth in one's life, spiritually. It is a vice for which we are subject to imagination and not Godly intent. It in itself becomes a false god, constantly driven by your own pleasure.
And yes, I was one caught up in this for a long time in my life.
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:09 pm
SonnyBlood This may be a touchy subject, no pun intended, but why do some christians say *tries to use good language* that oral sex and masturbation are sinful? Cuz what about same-sex relationships? There's only so much pleasure you can get without eating out or using a vibrator......if you get my drift. Thank you, --Sonny! Hi! I hope this is helpful: Masturbation is sinful because it is an act of lust. Jesus said in Matthew 5:28, "I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Even just looking lustfully, or thinking lustful thoughts about someone, is adultery. So it breaks commandment, "You shall not commit adultery." This is one the 10 Commandments, which are the standard that God holds all of us to. It's the standard he judges our lives by. Lusting after a person is also an act of hate against them, because you are objectifying them for your own pleasure. Humans are made in the image of God, so ultimately any act of lust is a perverted disrespect against God, and he holds us accountable for that. Oral sex isn't specifically mentioned in the Bible, but obviously this and any other sexual act outside of marriage is a sin of adultery. But if it is done between a married couple, the couple's bodies belong to each other and they are free to fully enjoy each other sexually in any way they agree upon. Sex is meant to be pleasurable; God encourages a husband and wife to enjoy each other and keep each other pure in their relationship. As for same-sex relationships, the Bible explains that this is a sinful, unnatural perversion. 1st Corinthians 6:9-12 is one place that makes this clear; Romans 1 is another place that explains it. People who are caught up in this sin need to do the same thing that anyone living in sin needs to do: Repent, turn from their ways, and follow Christ. We're all guilty of breaking God's commandments; without even getting into the other commandments, we can just see from the standard God sets for adultery that we're guilty: we've all looked lustfully at someone at some point. Not only that, but if we're honest, we know that we've broken all of God's commandments. The 10 Commandments are the standard that God judges us by; and the penalty for breaking them is death. We all deserve hell for the sins we've committed. But Jesus was so loving that he willingly paid that penalty himself on behalf of others. He died so that eternal life is possible for anyone who will claim Christ's sacrifice for themselves. "The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23). Whatever sin we are living in, if we will repent and put our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, we will be saved.
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:22 pm
Wait but 1) how is that adultery? I thought it was when you where cheating or having an affair....so if it's with your love how is it that? And 2) so are you saying you think it's sinful for two girls to use a vibrator, for example?
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:54 pm
SonnyBlood Wait but 1) how is that adultery? I thought it was when you where cheating or having an affair....so if it's with your love how is it that? An affair is any sexual activity outside of marriage. So, it doesn't matter if it's people who "love" each other or not. If the two people truly love each other, there will be no problem making the commitment to each other to get married, or waiting until they are able to. If they're married, then there's nothing sinful about sexual activity; marriage is what sex is meant for. Adultery and affairs are usually considered just as having sex outside of marriage, but God's standard is even higher than avoiding that. God looks at our hearts: even if we have not physically committed adultery, if we lust after another person we are committing adultery in our hearts, and so we've broken the law of God and stand guilty before him. In a similar way, even if we don't kill anyone, if we hate a person then we are guilty of murder. Things like hatred and lust are sins. Even though they aren't illegal by human laws, God's justice is perfect, and so by his law there is a penalty for committing them. If we aren't bought by Christ's sacrifice, if we won't put our faith in him instead of in ourselves, then we need to pay that penalty ourselves when our judgment comes. SonnyBlood And 2) so are you saying you think it's sinful for two girls to use a vibrator, for example? It really doesn't matter what I think or what I say, you know? The significance is that God's word says it: yes, it's sinful, because it's engaging in lust, and because it is same-gender sexuality. Sexual immorality, like any immorality, will prevent a person from being able to go to heaven. 1 Corinthians 6 says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." All of us are without hope if God judges us by our own actions; all of us have sinned and so we won't be allowed into heaven by our own merits. But that passage in 1 Corinthians goes on to say that we can be cleansed of these things and saved from punishment. "And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." Any one who will turn from their sin and follow Christ will be cleansed by his sacrifice, and found "not guilty" in God's judgment. This is what the central message of Christianity is all about.
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:29 pm
But how is it engaging in lust? If you are married, let's say. Cuz by that logic, even heterosexual relationships would be "engaging in lust" when they have sex, how is using a vibrator any different in that regard?
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Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:10 pm
SonnyBlood But how is it engaging in lust? If you are married, let's say. Cuz by that logic, even heterosexual relationships would be "engaging in lust" when they have sex, how is using a vibrator any different in that regard? It's different if you're married, because then it isn't adulterous. The Bible says that all sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful, but that within marriage it is appropriate. Sex is meant for marriage, it's meant to be enjoyed between a man and a woman who love each other and are committed to each other for life. In 1st Corinthians 7, several aspects of marriage are explained, and it says that a husband's and wife's bodies belong to each other, and they are told, "Do not deprive one another." A metaphor that Jesus uses in John 10 fits here. He says, "“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens." Even though he's not talking about sex, the same principle applies. Sex is like a garden, surrounded by a gate. Marriage is the only door into that garden. If we try to get in by any way other than the door, it will be obvious to anyone seeing us that we're trying to break in and steal something. There's nothing sinful about being in the garden; but if we're trying to climb into it rather than using the door, take what we want and then get out, we are doing the deeds of a bandit. Sex is a part of marriage, and that is the only way we are allowed to have it. Any other way is sinful, and if we do those things, we are only gaining fleeting pleasure while building up guilt for our day of judgment.
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:41 am
Quote: Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband ; also : an act of adultery Crimson, try looking up the word in the dictionary if you don't know what it means instead of making up a definition. Thank you. -.-
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Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:54 am
-Tsukiyo-Moon Maiden Quote: Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband ; also : an act of adultery Crimson, try looking up the word in the dictionary if you don't know what it means instead of making up a definition. Thank you. -.- Jesus in Matthew 5 gave a definition of adultery that extends beyond the dictionary definition you gave; that even looking lustfully upon another person is sinful. As I said earlier, God's standards are higher than human standards, and he looks at our hearts. We can be guilty in our hearts even if we have not carried out an act physically. SonnyBlood wasn't asking for the dictionary definition of adultery, she asked why Christians believe various sexual acts may be considered sinful. So I'm explaining the Bible verses which describe sexual sins. Semantics aside, I'm sure you would agree that the Bible says sexual activity outside of marraige is sinful, and that's really all that concerns the discussion. "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous." - Hebrews 13:4.
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