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The Not-So-United Races of America

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MightyHikaru

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:18 pm


You know, I'm not an american; Brazilian born and raised. But I consider myself a little bit familiar with the north american culture, including the most peculiar bits. But there are somethings that I yet don't understand. So enlighten me on this one, if you will.

The United States, as far as I know, is the most race-concerned country. It's like all the world revolves around your ancestrals and the color of your arm. While watching a documentary (Bowling for Columbine) and, in order to purchase firearms, you'd have to fill up a form, wait a couple days and all that burocracy. Nothing new there. What surprised me, was that on said form, there was this question: "Race". You'd think such form would be concerned with past criminal records and the like, but that sounds little importat when you have an issue as important as race.

From what I've heard, most people in the US know exactly who they descend from. They proudly burst out where their long dead forefathers come from. I'm caucasian; I'm hispanic; Look at me, I have a race! I tell you, until a few months ago, I didn't even know my racial "roots", and I doubt most people around here actually do.

(Now, I'm not trying to glorify Brazil or anything. We still have race jokes and all that crap. But let's not get into that.)

Anywho.

Here's my biggest problem with all that: I'm sure that if I started talking about indians and/or black people, at least one person would correct me; "indians" is ofensive! You should say Native Americans. Or African Americans.

Stan: You people just got greedy, like the Native Americans!
Randy: Hey, mister!! We're not like them, all right?! (...) Don't you compare us to those cold-hearted, money-grubbing, evil stinky Indians! I'm sorry, Native Americans.

(South Park - Red Man's Greed)

I suppose that on a country that is so obsessed with race, it would be innevitable to be some race disputes, prejudice and the like. And don't get me wrong, I don't mean just white people either; as far as I know, a lot of black people also stereotype the caucasians as the "suburban" type people.

But does making up a whole new name for a race help anything? Hell no. If anything, it makes people more paranoid about racism. Even if they mean no harm, someone can be frowned upon on calling someone (gasp!) black. But, surprise, calling someone white is far from derrogatory. Why would that be?

Seriously, I don't know.

And, for the record, we also brought slaves from Africa. We also slaved indians and screwed most of their culture. But why won't you see anybody saying "Native Brazilians" or correcting someone that says "indians"? Because nobody gives a s**t about that.

PS: This is also here.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:01 pm


I am an American, and I agree with most of the things that you've said. I've often wondered about our obsession about our lineage. I have a friend who gets incredibly insulted if you insult the french because she's "french", or at least, she has some french ancestory on her dad's side. So many times I have wanted to correct her and tell her that she's not french, she is american. However, people look at me strange when I tell them that I am american because I'm very caucasian and obviously not of Native American descent.

As your South Park quote shows, it is completely possible to be derogatory no matter what term you use for a race. But if we want to talk about "Politically Correct" terms, lets talk about the Latin culture in my hometown.

I live in an agricultural farming community (or I did, before I left for college). There are a lot of immigrants from Mexico that come up to work the orchards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are from Mexico, does that not make you Mexican? But we cannot refer to people as Mexican, Mexican is derrogatory. Hispanic used to be the PC term, but we were recently informed that several hundreds years ago, Hispanic was also a derrogatory term, so they are to be called Latino/a now.
Confuses the heck out of me.

Frankly, I have no idea why we obsess so much about race in this country. Maybe it has something to be with it being such a melting pot from different places, it gives us a sense of identity that we've lost in other areas of our lives. Along with America not really having much of a culture of our own, we don't have the rich history and traditions that a lot of other countries have, we just steal them. So by saying that I am half english, a quarter German, and then a mixture of french, Irish, Swiss, Yugoslavian, and Romanian in the last quarter, I feel like I have a sense of identity, I know who I am because I know where I came from. Not that Yugoslavia has anything to do with me now, but that's not the point.

And America is obsessed with being politically correct. We don't want to offend anyone, so we try to avoid actually saying anything, because it's impossible to speak without offending anyone.

I don't know if that stayed all that coherent, it's late, and my ears still aren't working from the music at the party that my friends dragged me to.

AriaStarSong


Starlock

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:47 pm


A word of warning: be careful when making generalizations. I am an American. I have not observed these trends that either of you are making to the degree which you have. I have seen it, but certainly not enough that I think it is an issue. I think America, unlike other nations, addresses race. Some nations don't even ask the quesiton and pretend it doesn't exist... as if somehow that will prevent racial tensions from arising (or religious/sexual orientation/age tensions for that matter). It doesn't, from what I've heard (which I'll admit is not as much as I'd like to make any firm statement here). I don't give much of a damn about my lineage or anybody else's and neither has anybody else I've known. It's never come up in conversation, save perhaps the occasional projects as a kid when we did little self-biographies that included our heritage. I see no obsession with race around me; I think presence of this supposed obsession depends on the lenses through which you see the world and where you're living in the States.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:19 pm


I don't believe in "race" it is a term derived from the evolutionist of the early days God created a people like Adam and Eve were they probably looked Middle Eastern which is the most middle color of people of all of the Earth and off of them branched your blacks and whites and asians and such they were all in there genes and as for all of them living in the same place the Tower of Bable explains that were God got angry at the people of Earth and seperated them by there skin color and gave them all diffrent languages to confuse them so they wouldn't try to recreate it ^.^ there ya go I'm American too (not proud of it more connected to religion than to my country its not the best place in the world....)

Cradoc


vorel_vargach

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:01 pm


Starlock
A word of warning: be careful when making generalizations. I am an American. I have not observed these trends that either of you are making to the degree which you have. I have seen it, but certainly not enough that I think it is an issue. I think America, unlike other nations, addresses race. Some nations don't even ask the quesiton and pretend it doesn't exist... as if somehow that will prevent racial tensions from arising (or religious/sexual orientation/age tensions for that matter). It doesn't, from what I've heard (which I'll admit is not as much as I'd like to make any firm statement here). I don't give much of a damn about my lineage or anybody else's and neither has anybody else I've known. It's never come up in conversation, save perhaps the occasional projects as a kid when we did little self-biographies that included our heritage. I see no obsession with race around me; I think presence of this supposed obsession depends on the lenses through which you see the world and where you're living in the States.


Where do you live? I want to move there. Also do you ever watch T.V. In particuraly cable? Race is not a big deal to me but it seems to be a big deal to everyone else. I have always thought that most made a big deal of race in the world beacuse as far as I can tell most people do in America. But if what he is saying is true then that is not the case. Are you saying you don't remember the big racial profileing controversy after 9/11? Have you forgoten that the Government has sevral laws like affirmitive action and others designed spicificaly to make it easier for people to get jobs if there skin is a certian color?

Will ignoring peoples races stop racial tension? Obviosly it will we can't have racial tension if we don't make a big deal about who is what race.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:10 pm


Can we get rid of the word "race"? It is not race you are talking about but ethnicity, race implies like say the human race. So if you talk about a subject make cear of what you are talking of.

Fools-luck


vorel_vargach

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:44 pm


Fools-luck
Can we get rid of the word "race"? It is not race you are talking about but ethnicity, race implies like say the human race. So if you talk about a subject make cear of what you are talking of.



dictionary.com
race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4.Humans considered as a group.
5. biology
A.An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies.
b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.
6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine.


I think we all understand that when we say race in this conversation we are not talking about the fourth definition.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:11 pm


I'm from california, the racial mixing pot of the world practically. Everyone else sees us as being very open minded about people of different backgrounds. We even have homocentral San Fransisco. ((take offense if you care to.)) but I've lived here most of my life and I can tell you, everyone hates everyone here. So here's what I think:

Hate is a normal, athough evil, human instinct and no matter of ignoring words or what have you is going to stop it. The world is going to hate. You can be nice and be tolerant and it may help, but it will never completely cease.

Socrates in Disguise
Captain


vorel_vargach

PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:58 pm


Socrates in Disguise
I'm from california, the racial mixing pot of the world practically. Everyone else sees us as being very open minded about people of different backgrounds. We even have homocentral San Fransisco. ((take offense if you care to.)) but I've lived here most of my life and I can tell you, everyone hates everyone here. So here's what I think:

Hate is a normal, athough evil, human instinct and no matter of ignoring words or what have you is going to stop it. The world is going to hate. You can be nice and be tolerant and it may help, but it will never completely cease.


I don't think that his point was so much about not hateing as it was about not putting importance of racial diffrences.
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