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 Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:31 pm
So this is an Appaloosa breeding farm that is close to where I live.
I never knew about them until I looked in the back section of the latest Horse Illustrated.
http://www.wakonappaloosas.com/
Look at their mares. Conformation critiquing anyone?
And do you really need 6 stallions, for 8 broodmares?
The answer is no.
And they're also selling a stallion I noticed. With no mentioned winnings, earnings, or anything. If I remember right he was 5 or 6. Who in their right mind would buy a 6 year old stallion with no show history?
They're just trying to breed for the black and white color.
And I was so excited, to think we might have a appaloosas for sale around here.
rolleyes
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:59 am
Well the horse in you pic is gorgoues to start with heart But no they don't need 6 stallions for 8 broodmares....In fact the most I've seen barns in my area have is two unless they're the real big shot racehorses in which case they can have a whole string of stallions to make money off of.
Some of the horses legs do look slightly unsound but that could be just the shots and the time they were taken.
I wouldn't buy the stallion with no record rather ornot their was show history. He's probably a handful or there's some reason they want to rid themselves of him..
So technically the horses are apps and they probably have okay breeding but if you want to purchase one I would go elsewhere. They look okay and usally Horse Illustrated trys to screen horse advertisements, but in the end it would be up to you. Although pictures can show you alot meeting the horses would be you're best bet as far as purchasing one from this place....
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:59 am
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:26 pm
Thank you Stormy. (:
And yeah, if they were retired show horses it'd make sense having multiple stallions... But these horses with bad conformation?
Ughhh.
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:56 pm
So I decided to learn a little bit more about Appaloosa conformation, since I mostly just know Quarter Horse, and why they are similar I didn't figure they'd be exact...
Well I found this website that has drawings of the breed standards. And links to sites about conformation.
http://www.usol.com/~lyoneastwest/appaloosastandards.htm
Now I know I used the older standards, but they're easier to compare to and there's not that much of a difference....
Here is Wakon's Banded Jewel. She is under the filly section, however she is 8 years old. No idea how old she was when the picture was taken.
The original photo showed her on a slope downhill, so I rotated it. Gave the owner the benefit of the doubt, I used the horizon in the background to try and get it straight. I might have, might not of.
I hate, hate, hate her croup. It's not nice and flat like the standard, and is very sloping and her loins are much higher than her back.
Wakon's Navajo Legend, a 9 year old stallion. Again, don't know how old he was when pictures were taken.
I think he looks a lot better than the mare above, overall. But there's that croup thing again!!!
I also have a butt shot to compare.
Click
And here is Legend's sire
Click
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:18 pm
If you can't even figure out how to take a half-way decent conformation shot, I don't think you have any business being a "breeding farm". Lets not even talk about the mediocre quality of most of those horses.
Are they looking for that weird croup thing? Almost every one of their horses has that... and I know quite a few apps that don't, so it's not a breed thing...
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Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:37 pm
I shuddered while looking at this site. Their foals are all crooked and the studs and mares all have faulty conformation. When you look at the individual parts and compare it to GOOD appies, these are AWFUL. They're put together very poorly
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:23 am
I really want Fugly Horse Of The Day to find this... haha
Edit: In fact, I e-mailed her about it.
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:25 am
Nothing about these horses impress me, theyre just a bunch of color breeders.
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:25 pm
Ugh...first thing when you breed App's, as with any horse should be a focus on their conformation!
And the less color the mare has usually the more color the babies have, I've seen it myself.
I know this cause my friend breeds QH and App babies, conformation first and foremost, and good minds, lastly color!
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:20 am
Let's not get into color genetrics here - I have to laff at the comment about the mare color, Lawd! Can someone post a pic of good conformation on an App? You have to realize that the modern day App is NOT an Indian pony, like many would have you belive. Those "Old Time" pics of the indians sitting outside their teepee's either on an App or with an App in the back ground - they are staged! You also have to remember that, up until recently, the App registration books were open to any horse someone wanted to call an App (just like the QH books were open to anyone having a "good" horse they wanted to call an American QH!). Back in the days of "the Wild West" the US calvary let their draft horses out to breed with the Indian ponies b/c they just couldn't kill the Injuns fast enough. so there's another taint to the gene pool. The books are still open on the App side - you can cross a reg. App w/a TB, QH or Arab.... The idea is/was to try and improve the conformation of the breed with those crosses.
My App is 100% Foundation bred - that means that you can't find an Arab, QH, Unknown, or QH in the first 5 generations of his pedigree. If you start digging though you'll find out that he is mostly TB & Morgan w/some Arab in there for good measure! (NO QH!)
Pic & Pedigree: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/indignant+classic
Those that breed 100% foundation horses are looking for a baroque look. They like those Fugly horses and you may be interested to know THOSE HORSES DON'T BREAK DOWN as easy as "modern day" horses do! They don't colic, they don't take kindly to jack-a** cowboy-ing. One more thing, when you look at the conformation on an Appy please take into consideration what the horse is being used for and how it moves. A lot of Apps are GAITED and you are not going to see typical QH conformation on them, otherwise they wouldn't be able to gait.
Anyway, I know some of you are on a quest for knowledge so you may find this thread interesting:
http://forum.horsetopia.com/breeding-genetics/101989-great-appaloosa-debate.html
And another pic of my Fugly App:
and in gait:
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Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:28 pm
Their horses are by no means, "Quality Appaloosas." Not most of them at any rate. I think they're more focused on the spots than how the horses are put together. To some that's all that matters. I don't see too many of their horses that I would deem show quality, not that a lot of horses are anyway in general. A lot of their breeding horses shouldn't be passing on their genetics either. The conformation faults are just being passed on. Their facility, judging from some of the pictures, doesn't look to be very professional. They appear to be backyard breeders to me. Loud color doesn't equal breeding suitability. I can't imagine what some of their prices may be on their horses.
I'm not an appaloosa breeder, I own one appaloosa. I'm not saying he's perfect. He doesn't have papers either as it wasn't taken into consideration by my uncle who'd gotten him as a weanling. But he's put together a lot better than most of those horses.
I own a young stallion and I have no intentions in breeding from him unless he deems himself worthy and fitting of it. With his bloodlines, I think he'll do well. That said, I think some people... especially some of the color breeders, should focus more on quality and not so much on flash.
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:06 am
That really didn't answer my question though. Show me a picture of your ideal of a Foundation App with great conformation - IYHO. I'd like to do something other than just b***h about breeding on this board. lol The foundation App breeders that *I* know, actually CULL the horses that produce the desireable colors in the QH ring - Buckskin, dun, etc. They don't give a rats a** about color at all actually. It's disappointing when a foal is born w/o color b/c that means you have to wait to see how they'll turn out. If the breeder knows what they're doing they know that an App will change color every year. Sometimes they don't even get their mottled skin (sclera, under the tail) until they are mature. I would hope that this breeder that you've spotlighted, after 50 yrs of breeding, would know what she's doing. It's not easy to make money in horses and there aren't a lot of people out there that can say they've bred horses for 50 years. This mare's sire is my own stallion's paternal grandsire. http://www.wakonappaloosas.com/horse_info.asp?horse_id=19&query_type=Gender IMHO, she is a good looking foundation App - her neck is not my ideal but she's also not been sweated and show ring fit - and she may have an insulin intolerance (glaring visible sign is a cresty neck like that, more people really should get their horses tested). This mare is my horses FULL sister: http://www.wakonappaloosas.com/horse_info.asp?horse_id=5&query_type=Gender
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