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Finally watched this video. The creator makes some good points, even though the spelling mistakes kind of took away some of the strength of their message.

So as far as looks go, an "Afro-centrist" seems to be one who believes that "African" features are the best, that black people (whether of African decent or not) should fully embrace and strive to achieve only the appearance of "African" features, and that black people who try to achieve "European" features are self-hating...?

That's what I inferred from the video.

With people all over the world having so many variations in their features (something that will only prove *more* common as humanity ages), it is a surprise that so many people are ignorant of the fact that these variations exist. Maybe the misconception is that people like Beyonce Knowles and Tyra Banks are trying to be something they aren't, when in reality, they are only enhancing features they were born with. confused

@princess z-m: I dont think they disabled comments because of the holes. It was the harrasement they were getting by pissed off afro-centrist towards the video.

But the views you what you just stated is what she just fought against.

See as we mostly see africans with non straight hair and believe that is the pure breed and right way of how every african and since we come from africa thats how african american should look. But little do we know that there are a few tribes with straight hair and a few with curly hair even red hair. ((Some because of european take over and some that were just born that way not because of european take over)). So what we see or think should be african feautres. She is showing that african feautres vary and just because a woman decides to use a straight hair or perms or pressing does not make that woman any less pure african or black. since afrocentrist believe they are trying to be white. Because it's not just african american women but other races as well use it. it doesn't mean you hate your race which is what alot of afrocentricist preach.

what she is saying is that afrocentricist take what main stream tells them and tribe pictures showing african feautres and assume this is what an african should look like when it's not like that. That africans "Pure africans" also have straight hair and narrow noses and even light skin. So most afrocentrist shouldn't put down women who decide to not wear they're hair natural.

No there's holes in their logic and they just couldn't take the debate. It's a b**h move that it is.

That's what point four was about & apiyo also pointed out on the whole cultral scheme which I hinted at. The whole thing is we hate ourselves no matter how you look at it or at least the media makes us hate ourselves. Black is ugly and white is beautiful in this culture as it has always been. I mean it's 2009 and Disney JUST NOW has Black Princess (who btw marrieds a handsome White prince) Like apiyo also pointed out the First Black whatever oddly happens to be some half N half or at least fair skinned. From Fredrick to Obama mostly all notable and beloved Blacks have been fair skinned, straight hair, and/or have white blood in them ect.

Yeah maybe they are proud to be black and whatnot however they are still fitting into the cultural model.

My point still stands. It's the audience that eats up that image, so we've still got millions of people caught in the white-is-right matrix. That's the problem we've been talking about.



It's mighty strange black people didn't care about all this until they got systematically brainwashed. You also are not looking at the cultural context.


They aren't trying to look black, they get nose jobs so they won't have nose-humps and they can look like they just got back from a sunny vacation. They don't do all that to look like us.



Do you honestly believe that the issue is resolved when you still have people telling their children they need to straighten that "nappy" mess, and certain people get put on a pedestal for having a certain look? How can you disallow something when you don't even acknowledge it's a problem?


Why is this even mentioned? Ain't nobody say anything about them. Why can't black people like ourselves without accusations of putting down white people. It's like if we admit that white people WERE wrong about us being ugly that we'll make them mad because "you don't need t' be correctin' dem white folk." Like you can't be good unless you protect whites and their ideals and anyone who doesn't is being a bad darky. Because it seems to me the only way to protect their feelings is to not be "afro-centric" AT ALL. I believe God made everyone the way he did on purpose, and we should all leave ourselves alone, but I'm NOT going to sit here and protect the Great White Race at the expense of putting myself down.



Snowwhite came out in 1937 so I'm sorry if I'm not appeased rolleyes . Why can't he be black. All the other princesses got men that look like them. Why can't I look to Disney and see main males that represent my father, brother, uncles, friends, cousins, etc? Now black women are taken care of but black MEN aren't worthy of princedom? I guess BET answers that question. You miss social ramifications, but it happens with alot of people, so, yeah, I have class soon.

The same things your saying now can be said for hispanics or hawaiians((Since disney has neithier prince or princess)) and any many other races disney didnt put up yet. Disney technically doesn't even have an asian princess. Can you really say it just sucks for that race. I'm not them so I dont care The only disney girls of color who got men in their own race was mulan and jasmine. Lilo gets a white guy she falls in love with, pochontas gets 2 white guys, esmerelda and kida even have their white guys. We just cant take disney seriously. Besides just because a character is the same race as you. Doesnt mean they represent you.

Ends quote vortex O.o . Yeah, Disney sucks like that, I could get into all the race and gender issues surrounding them, but that's a WHOLE nother thread.

Ahh, so that tangent is okay now? Hot Diggity biggrin ! Here I go.

Gender
Females
The obvious deal with gender is that the female characters pretty much lack any control of their lives. Mulan, Helen Parr, and Lilo clearly excluded and to some extent Pocahontas. What I mean is they have no agency. There is a set track that most of their lives are on and they do not deviate, except the exceptions. This is the track:

Be pretty and sing -> get harmed by the villian -> man saves you -> bow chika wow woo -> her worth as a person has been validated the end

It punches we the viewer in the face. Notice how even though the females are the main characters the princes are the one that get the glory. They pretty much waltz up in there in the end and commandeers the story. The girl is completely helpless and we know absolutely nothing about him, but it doesn't matter because he's the man and the stupid little bimbo is helpless without him anyway. And what's worse is sometimes you'll have girls, like Ariel, who get SOME leeway as to what she can do, and what does she do? Use it to force herself on track, even if it costs her her voice (how accurate rolleyes ). Yet another example of Disney girls who drop the ball on their inkling of agency is Belle. She's sitting there in Medieval France and can read. This means she's intelligent, but she isn't allowed to do anything with it except sitting around being a nerd, because in the end, she is just has helpless as the rest of the Army of Princess Stormtroopers. EVA from Wall-e breaks this monotony with flying colors because she has alot of control of her life, as does Helen part who is able to talk to Bob as a sentient person and Mulan gets to make a kill.

Now let's get into sexualization. Of course they are all sexualized, but have you ever noticed HOW the good girls are sexualized verses the villians. The MCs are all objectified but more in a blushy blush, tee hee hee way that seems innocent at first glance. Like Ariel is the Disney slut, but look at her compared to Ursala who shimmies and her breasts are 2 seperate objects, le Gasp 0oQ! They're both objectified but in different ways that help create a division. More on this good guy-bad guy stuff later.

One thing about Wall-e and Eva's relationship is that it's so sweet. Even though for Wall-e it is love at first sight, he eventually appreciates her. He is sad when she shuts down, meaning that unlike the other Disney guys he is not content with a mindless doll. Why is the best Disney-Pixar relationship between robots? And why are human, cat, and dog girls more objectified than an actual object?

And of course the object of debate from another thread is that the Disney girls all look generic. While I don't think they look EXACTLY the same, it still drives home the point that they are all generic cardboard cut outs. I may be able to tell them apart, but you can't, but it doesn't matter because they're interchangeable any. You'll notice I didn't get into race, that comes later. Gotta keep it organized 3nodding .

Males

Egads, why it's the Disney male species. So much is paid to the ladyfolk but critics ignore some glaring problems of the not-so-well-characterized bretheren. Such as the fact that the Prince Stormtroopers look even more alike, all the prince charmings even have the same hairstyle DX. And alot of them don't have names and we DON'T know anything about them. Let's put this in context.

Society relates to the Princess Stormtroopers and they are the world's darlings. So they get into trouble. Oh noes gonk ! says the world. But just when all hope is lost, Princess Stormtrooper is saved by a guy. A guy she has never seen, doesn't know, we don't know him, if not for the fact that villians HAVE to look evil, we'd be well convinced he's some sort of serial killer or sex fiend taking advantage of a timely situation. Snow white has just taken a sinister turn.

On a less creepy note, let's talk about masculinity now. People are always complaining about boys being spoon-fed the idea of being hyper masculine with GI Joe dolls, but now lets look at this thing. Nearly all the Disney leading males are NOT hypermasculine. Even though Quasimodo is strong and butt ugly he still has a boyish quality. The Prince Stormtroopers are non-threatening, the Beast looks like a smexy bishie, and Aladdin looks like a snot-nose burger-flipper. It wouldn't be so bad if their hyper masculine characters weren't all douchebags. Gaston is the obvious example and when the Beast was a beast, he was emotionally abusive (but that's okay Belle can fix him heart ) Simba goes into the Prince stormtrooper but I'm still not sure since he's pretty well thought out and not just the usual slapped-together males MC's needed to yank the plot in the last 5 minutes. Also he still is pretty non-threatening.

This all goes back to the same problem as the Princess Stormtroopers were the same mold is repeated. Masculinity is the male answer to female sexualization. It's okay to be masculine, but not too much or you'll scare you're delicate little flower. They could solve this by fleshing their characters out and creating some middle ground, but Disney just wouldn't be Disney withouth flat caricatures.

Some notable exceptions are Mr. Incredible, because as usual Pixar has to pick up the ball. He is hypermasculine, but not in a meat-head kind of way. He does workout and have his wife, home, and 3 kids, but he's a man of many dimensions. Out of alot of the movies, his character is a good mix of vulnerable without being a wuss, and masculine while still having some sort of personality. Also the cool thing about Bob is that he is strong and he has since. He's smart enough to figure out that the only way to destroy Syndrome's robot is to make it hit itself and he uses his strength intelligently to follow through. Also, his family is also dynamic, complete with character growth, so like our mechanical friend Wall-e, a paperdoll of a wife is not good enough. Similarly Li Shang from Mulan is also brawny but not to the point of being, flat. The thing Bob and Li Shang have in common is that they are masculine and it's okay. It's almost like society pushes the idea that males have to be masculine but when some one is than some Cpt. Buzzkill starts whining about it being scary and threatening.

Gender + Race
LOl, see we're getting back to that. You've already talked about Jasmin so I won't say much more other than she's like the only Princess Stormtrooper who's anatomy is so realistic. Oh, and of course Esmeralda who does a pole dance at the beginning. These to are clear exemptions to the rule of female leads being as chaste as possible. And they are brown and exotic, interesting.

And these 2 canNOT seem to stay out of compromising situations and in some case Esmeralda. It's also worth noting that Esmeralda's character is developed into somewhat of a two timer since she leads Quasimodo on, seemingly just to get his help. Granted he was the one jumping to conclusion, which gets into men always thinking "S-E-X" even when the woman is just being nice, so in the event I'm fishing, it leads to another issue.

And notice how sexulity is pushed on them. Jasmine has to get all up on Jafar and Frollo gets way over friendly with Esmeralda. And they get the most unexposed, except for mulan in the bath, the lake, and soldier's tents, but those are for the progression of the story since the lake leads to her nearly getting her cover blown and her having nothing but bandages leads to her cover actually getting blown.

In Peter Pan, there's apart were the cast is with Native Americans. There's this whole song about why the "red man is red" The first problem is that this explains why they aren't the default color of white. Secondly they are aparently red because they beautiful promiscious women keep them blushing. However the beautiful women are brown rather than white. This creates a difference between the chaste fair Wendy and the brown little whores. And if the men are supposed to be the red ones, why are the unattractive women red too? That creates a dual message of masculinizing the women who do not adhere to proper standards of beauty and putting the Native American women into two categories; slut and ugly. And this is all confirmed by Tiger Lilly dancing immodestly and seduce Peter Pan. These brown women cannot seem to set their fast little behinds down.


Race
In jungle book, you have a group of jive-talking swingin' apes wanting to be like the boy who is supposed to be Indian but is portrayed as white bread for all practical purposes. Even though all the other animals are proper and behave themselves. In Dumbo you have the crow called "Jim Crow" and again the personas are based off stereotypes. Scat cat (the hat-wearing black cat) makes advaces at the prim lady-like duchess.

Aristocats is choked full of um' Italian, Chinese, Russian, and British. Scatcat, the hatwearing black cat that plays the trumpet, makes advances at the prim lady-like Duchess. He's modeled after a black musician who voiced him. The point were Shun Gon, the Chinese siamese(breed) cat, does the whole chinaman Engrish bit is cringe worthy no matter how many times I watch it. Also Tolouse the black kitten is the mischievous one but to be fair Marie is kind of irritating.

The whole bit with Aladdin where barbarism is normalized and the culture is made out to be less than ours.

Song of the South

Nationalism

Why is it that the villians have accents, like Jafar, and at best Scar sounds creepy. Meanwhile they are up against such white-bread folk as Aladdin and Simba.
In Mulan it always irked me that she subscribes to Western ideals even though she lives in China and America didn't even exist then. Seriously, her character is very out of context. And in the 2nd movie she's whining about the 3 princesses being shipped of to marry a Mongolian kid.

Crappy characterization
One of my biggest grievances toward Disney.

Everyone is so flat, especially considering all that stuff up there I just said. The heroes always look "nice" except Quasimodo. The bad guys always have to look, sound, act creepy. This creates the message of being able to tell someone is good or bad because they look it.

And there is never room for grey areas. The good guys are perfect and anything bad that results in their actions, like Scar's death, are excused. But the Villians are always going "mwahaha, I am evil." To be evil is to be wrong and people don't like to be wrong, therefore they wouldn't call themselves evil. Or if they do, they justify it as being for the greater good. The whole bit just creates an us-vs-them thing. The only time there's shades of grey is the white-haired woman in the Incredibles, from Pixar, who has to pick up the slack AGAIN.

Side characters, like the ones in most Disney movies are silly. Only Wall-e deviates from this with awsome looking machines. It's like the creators made the MC's and didn't feel like giving anyone else serious consideration. And everyone is flat except for some Pixar people and Wall-e and EVA. At this rate, Terminator doesn't seem too bad if AI can do better in than real humans.

Whew, -_Q it's too bad I started running out of steam by the time I got to nationalism. I'm pretty sure there's more to talk about.