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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 7:28 am
I hear the same argument form almost every pro-"choicer": If we increase the supply of contraceptives, make them better, and make them esier to obtain, and make sex education programs better, we would reduce the number of abortions had each year.
To tell the truth, I really disagree with this. For one, most of the kids watching those education programs are either not paying atention, or paying atention to somthing else entirly. Beilive me, I've been to three diffrent schools through out my middle school years, and each time I ended up sitting through a sex education program, and each time I could tell thathardly any one was paying atention (My self included...but thats because I was forced to sit through two of them and refuced to do so in the third. I beilive that this is the kind of thing that the family needs to talk about.)
ANy ways, it seems that these programs spend more time on talkign about the diffrences between male and female, talkign about puberty and horomones, and then talkign about how to use contraceptives, and talking very little about the reasons for condoms and other such impliments. They talk very little about STDs, at least that was my experience.
ANy ways, my point is this. If you increse concreceptives and make them easier to obtain, you won't reduce abortion numbers. Because of the naturein people, if they are given more and better contraceptives, they are given more of a "reason" to have sex, and thus the risk of an unwanted pregnancy rises.
In my personle opinoin, its not contraceptives that we really need to be lookign at, its the education program. It needs to focus less on why sex is okay (I'm not saying it isn't) and focus a little more on the risks of having sex.
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:11 am
true plus a lot of contraceptives are the same as abortion... so not much of a difference there... i do not agree with either abortion or contraceptive... abstinance works far better...
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:15 am
I agree wihtyou on abstenence. And I was very suprissed with my first PP metteing when I was 12. I think the girls who did ithad yet to be fully indoctrinate din PP's lies. Because, although they promoted protection when having sex, they repeatdly told us that abstenence was the best method, and that if we wanted to 100% avoid having a baby (Yes, PP workers usedthe word baby of all things) that we should not have sex untill we are ready.
The second meating I atended...I am shamefull and sorry for those women to say, was the complete opposite...(It wasn't the same women, it was a man and a woman this time, who constantly refered to the baby as a fetus and actualy got up tight with me when I aksed a question and used the word baby instead of fetus.)
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:26 am
It depends. It can help but only if it's done along with other things. For instance, I know that in Norway abortion isn't as bad as it is here and they have contraceptives more available. However, they have a smaller population, they have more controls on abortion, and they have better sex ed.
If sex ed was improved, parental involvement was mandatory, and better pregnancy/childcare was extended to women, then contraceptives could reduce abortions. If you don't have the education, though, it won't do much, if there's no responsibility to take, people won't feel the need to use them as much, and if there's no support for struggling mothers, when bc fails people will turn to abortion.
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:32 am
And they absolutly hate it when you bring all that up. Why, becuase it means more work rolleyes
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:25 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle And they absolutly hate it when you bring all that up. Why, becuase it means more work rolleyes Yep, you can't just throw money at it and expect it to go away. You need to put effort into it. And they don't like that. I personally think that schools should try to get parents more involved in sex ed. They're the parents, they're the ones raising the kids, and when their kids do things sexually they don't approve of, they get so shocked even though they didn't take a hand in the sex ed and assumed the schools would get it all. My friend's sex talk from her mom consisted of, "You know what sex is, right?" "Yes." "Okay." I know it's hard to do, but...it's part of parenting and it's a responsibility people need to take with their kids. It can involve programs, not saying that schools shouldn't ever teach sex ed, I'm just saying parents should help their kids with that part of school as much as they do with math and science and things.
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Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:44 pm
It more the partents responsibility then it is the schools. If we really are to supply a better education on sex thorugh a school program, we need a board of parents looking over what the kids are goign to see, as well, parents should be encoureged to take an active role in the program. If I remember right, there wa sonce a time when the school only showed a video on human reproduction, and they then mailed out pamphlets to the students homes that they were supposed to read with their parents. The pamphlets contained all the information on STDs, contraceptives, condoms (both male and female) as well as some more informatoin on the film that was seen.
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:17 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle To tell the truth, I really disagree with this. For one, most of the kids watching those education programs are either not paying atention, or paying atention to somthing else entirly. Beilive me, I've been to three diffrent schools through out my middle school years, and each time I ended up sitting through a sex education program, and each time I could tell thathardly any one was paying atention (My self included...but thats because I was forced to sit through two of them and refuced to do so in the third. I beilive that this is the kind of thing that the family needs to talk about.) Because by attending sexual education videos at only 3 different schools makes you able to generalize the attention span and sexual-education interests of hundreds and thousands of students across your countrys, across several other countrys and into every single school that there ever is. But of course you can generalize the attention span towards sexual education of over 500,000 students world wide by attending the observasion in only 3 classes and not even asking the students one on one what their personal thoughts on the presentation were...that really doesn't make sense Pyrotechnic Oracle ANy ways, my point is this. If you increse concreceptives and make them easier to obtain, you won't reduce abortion numbers. Because of the naturein people, if they are given more and better contraceptives, they are given more of a "reason" to have sex, and thus the risk of an unwanted pregnancy rises. no, unwanted pregnancys increase when the contraceptives don't work not when contraceptives give people the idea to have sex.soo you're saying we should take away the contraceptives then? the "reason" people have the idea to have sex is because they're human. sex= pregnancy sex with contraceptive= less chance of pregnancy because no contraceptive is 100% effective
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:45 pm
wow, you missed the point entierly. Once agian you fail to see things form our point of view. Every one in this guild is thining it, I'm just going to say it, as nice as I can for both our sakes. If you can';t even atempt to see things form our point of view, then mabey you shouldn't be hear.
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:03 pm
First off, I don't make generalizastion, and really, you have no right to point fingers. I make observastions, and state my opinoin based on these observations. Second, lay off the sarcasim. Its insulting and not welcome in a debate. And there is no need to bold or color your statements, it won't help you get your point across any better.
As for my opservation, its true, to an extent. If you sit in on a sex education calss and look around, you will find that vast majority arn't really paying atention, or are paying attention to each other, and those that are paying atention are either mackgn fun of it, or, in mabey one of two persons, actualy tryign to learn somthing.
So how do unwanted pregancies happen? They happen either becuase the couple dosn't use protection, or the protection fails. Responcible couples who want to have sex with out getting the woman pregant will go to every extent to see that the sex they have is safe. Teen on the other hand, will not. As long as the guy has a condom, or the girl is on the pill, or both, they think their fine. You'rewrong about contraceptives. WIth in teens, better contriceptives means safer sex, safer sex mean more sex. Giving them better contriseptives is envitign them to have more sex. The teen mind is irrisponsible for the most part and very pradictable.
Its very strong of you to make the assumption that I think we should take away contraceptive. Perhaps you should read the rest of this thread. We don't need to take away contraceptives, we need to make sex education better, and get the parents involved.
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:36 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle wow, you missed the point entierly. Once agian you fail to see things form our point of view. Every one in this guild is thining it, I'm just going to say it, as nice as I can for both our sakes. If you can';t even atempt to see things form our point of view, then mabey you shouldn't be hear. Please do not speak for "everyone in this guild." You have no way of knowing what the rest of us are thinking.
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:46 pm
Anyways, I would say that contraception is pretty darn easy to access as it is. I don't know much about the Pill, but it seems like everyone I know is able to get it. And condoms you can buy in every Seven-Eleven or drug store.
For sex ed: Kids don't pay much attention in any classes, in case you didn't notice. That doesn't mean the classes have no effect.
I agree that sex ed should always be very inclusive, and not be limited like that. 3nodding
And Ka, please don't get all sarcastic and snarky. Remember that this is our guild. You opinion is welcome, but don't be rude to us when giving it.
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:00 am
I agree with you on the issue of sex education lacking, but I think even talking more about the risks of sex isn't the proper focus. It's important, but what really needs to be taught is a genuinely healthy attitude toward sex. I'm not talking about the attitude that sex is okay. I'm talking about the attitude toward the decisions you make regarding sex.
People who have not had sex or chose to not have sex are looked down upon. This happens moreso with younger people, but that's when most of peer pressure occurs and when most of your identity is built. Sex is treated like some sort of status symbol, and if you are not having sex then something must be wrong with you.
American culture (at least; I don't have any personal experience growing up in another culture, so I can only speak about Americans.) is filled with movies and TV shows about people having sex and getting sex and desperately trying to lose their viginity as if it is some sort of exotic disease that will kill you if you haven't slept around or something.
That's not a healthy attitude toward sex, and I have met many people who would have made different decisions if they had been taught that not having sex is just as okay as having sex, and so what if your classmate is having sex? They would have waited or chosen not to have sex at all or been more particular about the fact that they wanted to use birth control when their partner didn't.
It also means teaching that when you do decide to have sex, you have to be aware of the consequences and to make the right decisions based on those possible outcomes. Having a healthy attitude toward sex means a person is more likely to decide to do what they should be doing regardless of the pressure put on them to do something else.
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:33 am
I.Am Pyrotechnic Oracle wow, you missed the point entierly. Once agian you fail to see things form our point of view. Every one in this guild is thining it, I'm just going to say it, as nice as I can for both our sakes. If you can';t even atempt to see things form our point of view, then mabey you shouldn't be hear. Please do not speak for "everyone in this guild." You have no way of knowing what the rest of us are thinking. Oops sweatdrop I made a generalisation. My bad. Won't happen again, sorry And Ava, thank you very much. You bring up a very valid point. Sex must be taught with the desire for the person to have a healthy attitude towards it, not just "Oh, sex, better have protection." Thats why I want to get the parents involved. The people who have had far more experince in this world. Its like I said, the young and teen mind is irrisponcible and pradictable. They (we're all guilty of it, so there is no denighing it) think they know every thing and can do what ever they want. If you get some one responcible to sit down with them (perhaps even tell stories of their experince with peer pressure and what not) you could very well change the young mind's out look on sex.
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:48 am
I agree with some of the posters that already said many forms of "contraception" are not contraception at all. They do not prevent conception, they just prevent implantation. Do they teach this and what this means while teaching about the different methods? Personally I don't believe sex education is the school's job at all. I do believe as part of biology that students should be taught about pregnancy but it is not the school's place to be telling them if they should or should not be having sex. And by this I mean that I don't even believe they should be teaching abstinince. It is fine for them to say that is the only way to prevent pregnancy 100% but that is where it should end. That is up to the parents what they want to teach their kids. While condoms are a form of birth control I do agree with (not to mention the only ones that prevent STD's which I would be more concerned about than having a baby) I don't believe they should be passed at in schools no more than I think clean needles should be passed out in schools.
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