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And that shows that Jesus isn't so perfect. biggrin

However we don't know that these tantrums even happened because we weren't there. :3

Of course, if your religion believes that homosexuality is a-ok, then all this means diddly-squat now doesn't it?

And of Course there is Leveticus 18:22 and the other death one.
So basicaly male homosexual sex is sinful.

Leviticus 18:22, 20:13

These can arguably refer to temple prostitution or other pagan fertility rituals, as a good deal of the Torah tends to. Doing so makes you unfit for Hebrew rituals. That is what is meant by "ritual uncleanness," which a Christian shouldn't care about.

Though the scripture does not reference a particular ritual it is forbidding, the culture context is more important to consider. Canaanite fertility cults abounded around the Hebrews, and such practices as boiling a goat in its mother's milk were primarily a response to Canaanite practices. I mean, come on -- some of these mitzvot just don't make sense all by themselves. However, it does make sense in the cultural context the Israelites were surrounded with.

"After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. ... (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled [i.e. made common] ) ... Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God." (Leviticus 18:3,27,30)

Clearly, these were all practices that the people before had done. As such, to distinguish the practice of worshiping YHWH from that of the Canaanite deities, he gives them prohibitions and actions that would make them "peculiar" (unique).


Chapter 20 of Leviticus also deals with various social and cultural practices which by banning would make the Israelites a completely distinct culture:

"And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people. ... A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:6,27)

Again, this deals with distinguishing the Israelites from the Canaanites, rather than from the fundamental immorality of the thing. Their practices were foreign, and the Israelites had already dilluted their culture by staying in Egypt for too long. Was it possible for Israel to come up with its own culture? Yes, but it had to extinguish the Canaanite practices. This was all about nationalism and the need to establish a new society, not from the underlying problems with talking with supernatural entities and/or engaging in sexual relations with a person you love and cherish.

In any case, the concepts of ritual cleanliness are abolished completely by the New Testament. "And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean." (Acts 10:28 ) Thus, concepts of being unclean by virtue of disobeying specifics in Leviticus should be disregarded, since the concept of "cleanliness" is moot in Christianity.

The only thing that is important in Christianity is to have faith and to love one another. Peter again admonishes the early Church to not require the Gentiles to follow the Mosaic Law:

" 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." (Acts 15:8-11)

Faith makes a person pure, and the witness of the Holy Ghost tells a person that their sins are forgiven. It is not a checklist of to-dos and not-to-dos -- which about half of the New Testament goes into agonizing details.

However, there are some things that are required of Christians:

" 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication [temple prostitution], and from things strangled, and from blood." (same chapter, vs. 18-20)

All of these elements have some sort of connection to pagan rites, whether through eating something offered to an idol or engaging in the celebration of a deity other than YHWH. As such, these are subject to smititude.

Over and over the writers of the New Testament preach against Christians having to obey the "law of the circumcision," which incorporates all the ritual requirements of the Mosaic Law, including the prohibitions against wearing garments of more than one material, of having sex with a woman on her period (i.e. in the "time of her uncleanness" ) and having to celebrate the Feasts of Passover, Tabernacles, and so forth (which were absolutely required by practicing Jews).

So, in summary: the New Testament is rife with statements that you don't have to obey the Mosaic Law. In fact, Paul goes one more and states that any and all commandments have to be relatable somehow to the one commandment: love thy neighbor as thyself (Romans 13:10, Galatians 5:13-14). In order to maintain that God is against homosexuality, you have to prove definitively that it fundamentally goes against the notion of loving your neighbor as yourself. Under consensual homosexuality, I find this prospect incredulous at best.

But there are direct showings of uncleanliness in the same work, even in the same essay, I shall put an example below, but who has the most authority, God's word, or Jesus's word? Who has more authority? More power?
Example:


Not going into why one can be unclean as decreed by a religion and not openly by a populace, with the populace eventualy taking the measures decreed in thier Torah against the unclean and biblicaly perverted.


What stimulates you to chose a different meaning and different words for forication. "Temple prostitution".

and I'm just going to ignore arguing the points where Jesus and apostles are rule.

Quoted from Divash:

Basic Overview-The Torah and Homosexuality
The Torah mentions in Leviticus 18, "You shall not lie with a man in the same manner as with a woman." Stricter interpretations can mean "No man-man sexual acts at all, end of story." More liberal interpretations can mean, "No face-to-face penetrative sex between men; the rest is fair game."

More Detail
The Talmud is full of interpretations of both man-man activity and male solo activity. Some authorities forbid and some permit, but no decision is ever actually reached, which means that interpretation is still valid on all sides of the argument. Strictly speaking, only the face-to-face penetrative act between men is specifically forbidden.

Woman-woman acts, and solo female acts, are not mentioned at all in the Torah or in the rest of the Tanach. The Talmud contains basically one paragraph about woman-woman sexual acts: M'solel (literally, "scratching") is considered lewd by some authorities, not by others. It is not considered to be equivalent to sex, and therefore a m'solelet ("woman who 'scratches'" herself or another woman) may marry even a kohein (priest), even the kohein gadol (high priest), because she is still a virgin. Even the Talmud doesn't forbid a single sexual act; those who call it lewd still state that it is permitted.

BEING a homosexual is not the same as HAVING homosexual sex. It's a state of being, not a verb. BEING gay is forbidden nowhere. Not in Torah, not in the rest of Tanach, not in Mishnah, not in Gemara, not in responsa.

If you're disgusted by homosexuality, don't have homosexual sex. Asking or telling about ANY sexual act is very non-tzanuah (immodest) anyway, so let's all keep our personal details to ourselves. If you wouldn't ask a straight couple what they do in the bedroom (or kitchen, or living room, or basement), keep your nose out of what gay people do, too.

Other Info
By the way, Torah also forbids eating non-kosher animals, eating kosher animals that have not been slaughtered in kosher fashion, mixing meat with dairy or even benefiting from such, eating shellfish, eating bottom-feeding fish, eating or even touching reptiles, and eating or possessing any form of leavening, no matter how small, during Passover. It forbids the blending of wool with linen in any way, in any garment, even just by sewing a linen tag into a woolen garment, or even wearing both wool and linen at the same time in different garments.

Oh, and Torah also forbids man and wife from having relations, or even touching one another or passing one another items, while the woman is menstruating, or even during the seven clean days following menstruation, until she has immersed in the mikvah. In fact, there are over 200 commandments and Talmudic laws which relate to exactly how a married (heterosexual) couple are meant to be sexual together. ONE law related to male homosexuals, and NONE related to female homosexuals. It's not that G*D hates heterosexuals or finds them disgusting; he just must feel that they need more restrictions.

I wouldn't do it because I'm not a Christian. But I'd expect Christians all around the world to start jumping off bridges. Those who didn't I would call fakes. Call me cold. Call me an idiot. The Bible clearly outlines the guidelines by which Christians should live.

The one's here with "good heads on their shoulders" are simply the kinds of fakes I'm talking about. The ones who bend Christianity to suit their lifestyle and views.

As far as invitations go, this is your guild, so invite and accept who you want. You put me on Crew so that I could moderate should the need arise, and moderate I shall.