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Behatzlacha-S

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:42 pm


Lumanny
Divash
Hey, not all Orthodox conversions are recognized, either. In fact, the Syrian Jewish community asked for, and were granted, the right to consider ALL CONVERSIONS invalid, and all descendants of all converts as bastards. The rest of us purse our lips tightly and say "That's their right," and we leave them alone because a great many Jews are descended from converts -- including Rabbi Akiva, who converted at the age of forty and since became one of the greatest rabbanim of all time.


As in THE Rabbi Akivah? I didn't know that. smile


Pearls of gold, Lumanny, pearls of gold.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:53 pm


*Is proud* Not all conservative rabbi's conversions and marriages are thrown out.

The rabbi at the synagogue I attend has had his conversions and marriages approved in Israel because he does them to Orthodox standards.
He is the definite exception, though, because he is so much more Orthodox than any of the other Conservative rabbis in the West.
Anyway, it makes me happy.

dancing-in-the-streets


Divash
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:28 am


Yes indeed, there are many Conservative rabbis whose conversions are upheld in Israel (the country, as well as the Nation/People). There are also a few Reform rabbis whose conversions are upheld, though they're fewer -- not because they are Reform, but because the majority of Reform rabbis do not demand mitzvot observance, and yes, this is according to the Reform Judaism platform, which you can read on their website,not just misinformation spread by the "intolerant traditionalists."

I mention this because I think it's important to remember that the Orthodox and the Sephardi/Mizrachi/Teimani/Ethiopian/Indian communities do not reject Reform and Conservative conversions simply because the source is Reform or Conservative, nor do these communities accept all Orthodox or SMTE conversions simply because the source is Orthodox or SMTE.

The rejection or acceptance is truly on a case-by-case basis, and it is entirely based upon halachah:

* Does the rabbi demand mitzvah observance? (The interpretation of how to observe is the difference, not the choice of whether to observe.)
* Did the convert accept the mitzvah observance?
* Did the convert then proceed to do as promised, that is, to observe the mitzvot lifelong?
* And was the process documented so that it can be proven -- that is, is there a certificate of conversion, including the statement that mikvah immersion was witnessed?

If the answers to those questions is "yes," then the conversion is valid, regardless of the official affiliation of the rabbi in charge.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:39 am


Lumanny
Divash
Hey, not all Orthodox conversions are recognized, either. In fact, the Syrian Jewish community asked for, and were granted, the right to consider ALL CONVERSIONS invalid, and all descendants of all converts as bastards. The rest of us purse our lips tightly and say "That's their right," and we leave them alone because a great many Jews are descended from converts -- including Rabbi Akiva, who converted at the age of forty and since became one of the greatest rabbanim of all time.


As in THE Rabbi Akivah? I didn't know that. smile


Yes. Not only that, but we are told that the Mashiach will be descended from King David. One of his ancestors was Ruth, a convert from Mo'av (Moab). Ruth was also the grandmother (or was she the great-grandmother? I forget) of Golyat (Goliath). So Mashiach will be a descendant of a convert, and the Syrian Jewish community probably will turn up their noses at him, too.

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kingpinsqeezels

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:15 pm


That makes no sense to me. The issue of converts and how to treat them is stated quite a few times in the Torah.

I read this article about a girl who converted to Judaism in Israel and had dated a few Israeli boys who would dump her every time she finally felt comfortable to tell them about her non-Jewish mother. Now she's engaged to a guy who has finally excepted her for who she is, but she terrified to tell his parents. I guess no hard decision comes without it's upsets. *Sigh*
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Jewish Gaians Guild

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