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Do You Think This Would Help Reduce Abortion?

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WatersMoon110
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:03 pm


I wrote this as a response to a Pro-Lifer from another forum. But It got so very long, and very detailed that I wanted to post it here, and see what some much saner and tons nicer Pro-Lifers from the Guild have to say! And all of my beloved Pro-Choicers in the Sub-Forum, I of course want to see your opinions as well:

Quote:
Do you honestly think that Pro-Choicers really want to encourage anyone to get an abortion if they don't want to? No, I promise you that we do not! We Pro-Choicers just look at the situations in the life of some unintentionally pregnant couples that cause them to feel that abortion is the best choice for them.

As I said previously, abortions happen at the same rate in a country whether they are illegal or not. So, though I understand that you care deeply about this issue, don't you feel that it might be better to work on things that reduce the number of abortions, rather than just spending all this energy telling people why you, and (your) God, feel abortion is wrong.

So, if making abortion illegal doesn't seem to actually stop abortion, could there be another way to try and reduce the number of abortions? Why do people even get abortions? Let's see what those people themselves have to say (from a site that sources a study conducted on people willing to talk about their abortions afterward with those conducting it):

"The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner."

So, obviously, most women/couples have more than one reason in their life that effects their choice to abort. Let's see, most women/couples getting abortions feel that having a child would interfere with their other responsibilities, like school, work, or caring for their children (or other dependents). Most women/couples getting abortions feel that they simply do not have the money it takes to raise a child to maturity. Half of the women who abort are either single, or feel that their partner is not suitable for raising children.

With all of these reasons considered, what are things we could do to reduce abortion?

Don't you think that offering free or low cost responsible day care would help all those who go to school or have jobs be more likely to choose to carry a pregnancy to term and raise the resulting child?

What about couples who feel like they don't have the money to raise a child? Do you think that they might change their mind if they knew about organizations willing to donate baby furniture, baby clothes, and diapers? What about government help like WIC, who help pay for certain necessities for women and children under 5 living in poverty? Don't you think knowing about such things might help a woman/couple be more sure of their financial situation if they were to keep their pregancy and keep the resulting child?

There are many things that you could be doing right now to actually help reduce the number of abortions happening! You can volunteer at many Pro-Life organizations that offer services like helping pregnant mothers/couples who want to carry the pregnancy to term and put the resulting child up for Private Adoption. Or you could even just donate to such organizations! There are also many different organizations that work on getting "baby supplies" for expectant women or couples who couldn't otherwise afford them. These places can always use donations of money or even used, but not worn, baby items. These are all simple things that help limit the number of abortions, because they offer a "realistic" sounding solution to couples who feel that they can't afford a(nother) child.

You could also do things simply like spreading the word that such organizations exist! That there are other options for women or couples who would like to raise a child, but don't feel that they are in a situation to be able to realistically afford (financially, emotionally, mentally, or even just time-wise) to keep the pregnancy and raise the resulting child.


Please forgive me if any of the above seems less Civil than I try to be in here. As I debate mainly on another forum, you guys don't usually see me get more emotional about my posts (anymore). But I was totally annoyed at this particular Pro-Lifer, who insisted on calling Pro-Choicers some very nasty names, and refused to back up anything they said with evidence.

If I offend anyone in here with this OP, I totally don't mean to, and I am more than willing to edit any offending parts out of this post!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:19 am


Offensive?? I agree 100%. heart

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divineseraph

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:01 am


You may feel that most choicers feel that way, but I still find plenty of pro-abortion choicers, where abortion is the only good option for a pregnant woman.

Of course, that was a rather minor point, and you gave good advice throughout the rest.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:20 pm


I always hate to agree with Divine, but he's right. There are at least as many Pro-Choicers who want abortion available and don't care how many people have abortions, as there are Pro-Lifers who just want to make abortion illegal and have done with it.

But I also agree with you; Both sides should be working to reduce abortions.

Personally, I think we should focus more on private charities than on government handouts for help, if only because the government tends to spend a lot more tax dollars to do a lot less than a similar non-profit would do, but other than that, yeah. We should be making it so that no one ever feels that abortion is a necessity.

I.Am
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rweghrheh

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:20 pm


I agree. I'm instead of arguing, both sides can focus on how to reduce abortions.

We can educate people more (you would be surprised that a lot of people don't know that some medications weaken BC pills or that even being sick can have an effect on the pills).

Talk about adoption, open and closed a bit as some may be interested in that instead but may not know how to go about it. Talk about all the programs and groups that help pregnant girls/women, single moms, and people in need. It might not change everything but could be a big help, even if just for a short time and can be the difference between someone having an abortion and someone not having an abortion.

Working together and figuring out ways to help them is the best way to help prevent abortions or even unwanted pregnancies.

More people donating old stuff they no longer need can make a big impact.

I know somewhere in Europe (I think the Netherlands), they have free or more affordable child care, free checks up til the child reaches a certain age and are more flexible when it comes to parents taking off time for work to take care of a sick child. We need stuff like that.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:12 pm


To I.Am:
Quote:
I always hate to agree with Divine, but he's right.
True. I was speaking mostly of myself, and also in general of the Pro-Choicers on the other site. But there are certainly[b/] self-proclaimed Pro-Choicers on who have outright said that they are Pro-Abortion as well.
Quote:
Personally, I think we should focus more on private charities than on government handouts for help, if only because the government tends to spend a lot more tax dollars to do a lot less than a similar non-profit would do, but other than that, yeah. We should be making it so that no one ever feels that abortion is a necessity.
I agree with you on things like welfare. But I think that WIC is pretty okay. They only pay for certain things (diapers, eggs, milk, formula, baby food) that they feel are needed by young children and their mothers. My sister got WIC when my nephew was under 5, and it seemed like the sanest "government hand-out" I've seen. It makes more sense that food stamps (though those also do more harm than good in my opinion) or welfare for sure.

I do agree that private charities generally tend to do a better
hem exist in a single location, and focus on their own community. The one that helped my mother and us growing up was called People to People. They gave food and supplies to poor families. Local Schools always had a few food drives during the year to raise food for them.

WatersMoon110
Crew


WatersMoon110
Crew

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:18 pm


To sachiko_sohma:
Quote:
I know somewhere in Europe (I think the Netherlands), they have free or more affordable child care, free checks up til the child reaches a certain age and are more flexible when it comes to parents taking off time for work to take care of a sick child. We need stuff like that.
I agree. But I am somewhat of a Socialist when it comes to Health Care in general.

Free child care would be hard, because I don't know that I would trust my kid to a daycare being paid for by the government.

I hope to have a kid about the same time some of my friends do, so that we can trade babysitting (preferably in a group of three or more couples). I'd like to be able to set up an organization that would help parents of young children find other parents to trade babysitting with. Of course, that is what playgrounds are for (finding other parents of kids around your kid's age, so you can get together and talk, while you send all the kids off to play outside or upstairs - and also get them to watch your kids while you work or go to class or just take a break, in exchange for doing the same for them).
PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:29 pm


It seems entirely civil to me, and entirely correct.

That's an awesome idea. What I think would be really fantastic would be charity-run daycare. Think of people who are at home, not working because either they're retired or with the income their spouse makes it would put them in a tax bracket that would hurt rather than help them or whatever, or even at home because they're taking off time to raise their kids until school age. They could volunteer to basically work at a sort of free daycare. It could count towards practical work you need to do when you're in college getting a degree in childcare. It could be community service for highschool or college kids who have some free time. And it would enable women, especially single mothers, to keep pursuing their careers and education even when they are low on funds. Then it would a local, community-based project with the goals of helping women succeed and creating a safe and fun environment for children.

If I'm in a position to, I fully intend on taking a few years off work when I have kids and raising them at home. But I would volunteer at an organization like this because I could bring my kids with me, and they'd be able to socialize and make friends too. A lot of pro-life women I've met are in just that position. I wonder if something like that exists?

lymelady
Vice Captain


WatersMoon110
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:12 am


To lymelady:
Quote:
If I'm in a position to, I fully intend on taking a few years off work when I have kids and raising them at home. But I would volunteer at an organization like this because I could bring my kids with me, and they'd be able to socialize and make friends too. A lot of pro-life women I've met are in just that position. I wonder if something like that exists?
If it doesn't, it really should!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:48 am


WatersMoon110
To sachiko_sohma:
Quote:
I know somewhere in Europe (I think the Netherlands), they have free or more affordable child care, free checks up til the child reaches a certain age and are more flexible when it comes to parents taking off time for work to take care of a sick child. We need stuff like that.
I agree. But I am somewhat of a Socialist when it comes to Health Care in general.

Free child care would be hard, because I don't know that I would trust my kid to a daycare being paid for by the government.

I hope to have a kid about the same time some of my friends do, so that we can trade babysitting (preferably in a group of three or more couples). I'd like to be able to set up an organization that would help parents of young children find other parents to trade babysitting with. Of course, that is what playgrounds are for (finding other parents of kids around your kid's age, so you can get together and talk, while you send all the kids off to play outside or upstairs - and also get them to watch your kids while you work or go to class or just take a break, in exchange for doing the same for them).


I sympathize with your thoughts on daycare.

I think sanctioned maternity leave is a lot better of a job guarantee than socialized childcare. While the latter can be useful for the right people, I think taking care of children is a big responsibility for people who are not emotionally invested. Question: Can you ever reach the level of emotional attachment that a mother can? Can training make you reach that level?

While I may be scientifically wrong to say that "It takes a professional degree to raise children in the same way it takes one to be a nurse!" I feel like that's the appropriate thing to say. I want to acknowledge how much work it takes to raise a kid and offer that, maybe, hopefully, we can train people to do it. The services they would provide would be usefully for those who'd utilize them.

Ultimately however, I reiterate that I sympathize with you Waters.

DCVI
Vice Captain


WatersMoon110
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:05 pm


kp is dcvi
I sympathize with your thoughts on daycare.

I think sanctioned maternity leave is a lot better of a job guarantee than socialized childcare.
I just sort of took Maternity Leave as a given. Because I guess I forgot that not all Companies have that? All companies should have paid Maternity (and Paternity) Leave. Parents need time to bond with their child(ren). I'm hoping to be able to work from home when my husband and I have kids.

But I also think that some sort of trustworthy childcare should also be available for parents of older kids, so that they can work as well.

kp is dcvi
While the latter can be useful for the right people, I think taking care of children is a big responsibility for people who are not emotionally invested. Question: Can you ever reach the level of emotional attachment that a mother can? Can training make you reach that level?
I agree that usually no one is as emotionally attached to a child than its parents, and other relatives. I mean, family members (especially most parents, and especially many mothers) get flooded with hormones to allow them to feel the deep emotional bond they do with their children. It would be difficult to get that attached to a given child, though many wonderful teachers, childcare personal (including baby sitters *grin*), and family friends do form wonderful bonds with many children.

kp is dcvi
While I may be scientifically wrong to say that "It takes a professional degree to raise children in the same way it takes one to be a nurse!" I feel like that's the appropriate thing to say. I want to acknowledge how much work it takes to raise a kid and offer that, maybe, hopefully, we can train people to do it. The services they would provide would be usefully for those who'd utilize them.
That is true. There are some sources (some more useful than others) available already, for those who seek them out. But I really agree that it would be a good thing for more resources to be out there, helping to teach future parents some parenting skills.

kp is dcvi
Ultimately however, I reiterate that I sympathize with you Waters.
Thank you. But it is working parents, especially single working parents, that I really sympathize with; or parents going to school.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:49 pm


Abortion destroys an innocent life that has never even done anything wrong. I'm pro-life, and I never say that the mother should keep the baby, there is adoption if she doesn't want him/her. Why should she kill the baby when someone else can take him/her? That's rude! I know someone whose sister was raped, and got pregnant. She gave her daughter up for adoption, and is still in contact with her, she's about 17 now (the daughter of victim)

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