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The Fabulous Prince Babel
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 Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:30 pm
I know there is an introductory thread but I feel I need to make a thread because I have some questions.
I am thinking of officially converting to Judaism.
(For the past few months I've researched Jewish beliefs, history, and culture and have already adopted some of the customs into my daily living.)
I understand that conversion to Judaism will be difficult and will be a lengthy process. My problem is where to start.
I'm sixteen, almost seventeen, and ever since I was fourteen I've been looking for my true religion that I'd like to follow. I was born Roman Catholic and I've followed the faith for a great chunk of my life. I greatly respect the Church but around the age of twelve I discovered that Christianity was not the religion for me.
So for awhile I dug deep into the occult (oh noez!) but I never practiced or bought into the lifestyle. I adopted the religious philosophy of Hermeticism for the longest time until I discovered Judaism because I bought into the theology more than I did Christianity or any other religion I had read about.
A couple months ago I was walking around my school library and I check out three books on the three Abrahamic faiths. I read about Christianity and Islam and found myself shaking heads at the practice and theology and then I read the book about Judaism. I fell in love instantly.
After reading the book I began to grab books about Judaism and the Jewish people and found out this was the faith I had been looking for for all these years. I decided, after my second book, that I was going to convert. For the first time in my life I picked up the Bible to read it. (I had NEVER read it before. My mother was pleased but I said I only wanted to read the OT.)
Unfortunately there are no Jews in my area to talk to. I live in the Bible Belt and there are mostly fundy Christians in the area. I have a couple questions about the Jewish belief that I can't seem to find answers for.
Here they are...
What is the Jewish viewpoint of demons and angels? How similar are they to the Christian viewpoint? Do demons inhabit Jewish 'hell'?
Is their a hierarchy of demons like there are in Christian mythology?
Do Jews believe in ghosts?
Jews believe that G-d is the only deity that should be worshiped but are there lower deity-like beings in the universe?
How do I approach my parents about converting to Judaism? (They're not fully aware of the fact I want to convert.)
So the meat of those questions have to do with the supernatural. I've read deeply on those subjects since second grade and I don't want to abandon them because of my new faith.
My name is Michael, by the way, and I am a writer.
I enjoy religious satire and studying history.
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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:12 pm
As the only Jew here who works for a Pagan company I feel I can best answer these questions.
What is the Jewish viewpoint of demons and angels? How similar are they to the Christian viewpoint? Do demons inhabit Jewish 'hell'?
Well for one thing there is no Jewish 'hell.' Hell is a purely christian invention, which was adapted by Jews in 1492, more on that later. Now clearly there are angels who act as ambassadors to HASHEM. Angels appeared before Abraham to stop him sacrificing his son, Angels appeared before Lot to tell him to leave Sodom and not look back. The Angel of Death came to smite the first born of Egypt. Angels play a big role, demons are not present.
Is their a hierarchy of demons like there are in Christian mythology?
Demons are not present, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no Feudalism within Heaven. HASHEM has his angels, each one important, each one has their place, none more important than the other.
Do Jews believe in ghosts?
Define ghost, cause there's spirits and divine beings that are both good and evil, but are not regarded as "past lives that were not sent to heaven."
Jews believe that G-d is the only deity that should be worshiped but are there lower deity-like beings in the universe?
One of the Tenets of Judaism is that HASHEM is the creator, and the only Master of the Heavens. The Lord is our G-d, The Lord is One. There is debates on how other pantheons relate to HASHEM, but to us we only acknowledge HASHEM.
How do I approach my parents about converting to Judaism? (They're not fully aware of the fact I want to convert.)
That's a tricky one, I recommend just saying it openly. "I'm interested in becoming Jewish." They will probably shrug it off as "a phase of growing up," and let you be, you only need to prove to yourself that you have the desire and self discipline to make this goal happen.
Oh and no I'm not sure of the above answers, however our resident Chassid, Divash will give a better understanding or at least, longer answers.
heart U DIVASH!
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:31 am
Quote: What is the Jewish viewpoint of demons and angels? How similar are they to the Christian viewpoint? Do demons inhabit Jewish 'hell'? Well for one thing there is no Jewish 'hell.' Hell is a purely christian invention, which was adapted by Jews in 1492, more on that later. Now clearly there are angels who act as ambassadors to HASHEM. Angels appeared before Abraham to stop him sacrificing his son, Angels appeared before Lot to tell him to leave Sodom and not look back. The Angel of Death came to smite the first born of Egypt. Angels play a big role, demons are not present. That's pretty much covered it but there's some other details to remember (I was interested in the angel/demon side of Judaism for a short period of time). Judaism has been split on angels and demons for thousands of years. Nowadays it's fair to say almost every Jewish person believes in angels, and a fair few in demons. This is partly to do with the influences of other religions. If we travel back 2000 years, two groups, the Pharisees and the Sadducees, were debating the very existence of them. Its fair to say the Pharisees were the more dominant group, as they are the ones most present in people's minds. The Pharisees were open to the ideas of divine intervention, angels and demons, and personal resurrection. The Sadducees were staunch unbelievers in angels and demons especially, and were more conservative. Also, there are ranks of angels (ten, to be precise). If I remember, they are: 1 Chayot Ha Kodesh 2 Ophanim 3 ? 4 Hashmallim 5 Seraphim (everyone seems to know these guys) 6 Malakhim (like messengers) 7 Elohim 8 ? 9 Cherubim (sat on the Ark of the Covenant) 10 Ishim So there is no set beliefs in angels and demons, but some find that the embodiment of divine forces in a human form is easier to understand. This is the view I take. I hope you do choose to convert to Judaism, and please visit the Jewish Information sub-forum for more info on these sort of things. mrgreen
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:44 am
Alright, thanks.
I just thought that the figures such as Beelzebub and Azazel mentioned in Kings and Leviticus were demonic/devilish figures or were other gods so that's why I asked.
Wikipedia and other sources are extremely vague and books don't talk much about the Jewish perspective of those figures, just the Christian.
By ghosts I mean the spirit of a deceased human left on earth.
I've had my fair share of experiences and I didn't want to discount them because of me changing my faith.
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The Fabulous Prince Babel
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:17 am
Alastor Cromwell By ghosts I mean the spirit of a deceased human left on earth. I've had my fair share of experiences and I didn't want to discount them because of me changing my faith. Ok that Zohar territory. The Zohar is the great encyclopedic work of Kabbalah that goes beyond red ribbons and numerology. It's a hard read, but it's interesting. The human soul, as explained in the Zohar has 3 parts to it. The instinctive, The conscious and the Eternal. Nefesh, Ru'ach and Neshamah respectivly. In the Midrash, the oral history and mythology of Judaism, there are 2 stages of a soul, the earthly and the heavenly. Chayyah and Yehidah. It is believed that the Chayyah contains the Nefesh, Ru'ach and Neshamah. When a person dies their Chayyah is judged to see if it's worthy to be Yehidah. Each level of your soul separates from one another, and each is judged by HASHEM. HASHEM sees if you Nefesh is most powerful, that your first course of action was instinct, without thought or rationalism, if you were an more of an animal than a man. If your Ru'ach is most powerful, you are judged as a rational man but did not look to HASHEM to explain the unexplainable, you only believed what you saw with your own eyes. If your Neshamah is most powerful, you are a spiritual being, who is in tune with the will of HASHEM and put both your animal instincts and human rationalizations behind you and believed in the Miracles and the wonders of HASHEM. This judgment puts your place in heaven, that "my house has many kingdoms," bit you might of heard of. This is to ensure that you are put with people you would enjoy spending the rest of eternity with. Be you pious, scientific or hedonistic. However not every Chayyah becomes Yehidah, I believe the point of existence is to acquire knowledge and teach others of it. HASHEM put you on this earth for a reason. If you go to Heaven without learning the lesson HASHEM put you on this earth to learn, you are put back on earth as a Chayyah which inhabits the soul of a week old newborn. Now sages for centuries have argued about the Chayyah that didn't make it to Yehidah, that come back to earth only to find their new body has perished. Infant mortality, it happens. There is a lot of gray area of if the Chayyah simply seeks out a random newborn or if the Chayyah has an assigned place, and if that place is unavailable do they wander the earth looking for the thing they cannot have. So, for my beliefs and my interpretations of ghosts and deceased left on earth, I'm going to have to give you a definite... maybe? but probably not. Also, there's an Albert Brooks movie called "Defending Your Life." It is my favorite interpretation of "Jewish Heaven."
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Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:43 pm
Everyone's done a lovely job of breaking down the basics, so there's not a lot I could add without getting hopelessly complicated. The only thing I could really say is about your parents. Deciding when and how to tell them about your plan to convert is up to you entirely. However, tread carefully. They reared you a Catholic, and they may feel very strongly about Catholic Christianity. Even if they're not actively engaged with Catholicism right now, in fact, they may find that they have a strong visceral reaction to their child moving away from that faith. Some parents are supportive; some are heartbroken. If I were you, I wouldn't mention it at all, in fact, until you've moved out of the house and are fully self-supporting -- until you don't need them to help you pay for school, college, or anything else. I hope that your parents are the sort that will be happy as long as they know you're happy, but it is just barely possible that they're the sort who will cut off all support and throw you out of the house. Some will harass you, pick on you, make your life miserable until you swear you've grown out of your Jewish-phase and will eat your bacon again. I've seen it happen. It's not pretty. Wait until you're fully self-supporting and have taken some concrete steps in your journey. These steps will be different depending on exactly where you live and how you intend to approach Judaism, but here are the basic stages that a person generally goes through. 1. Speak to a rabbi.There may be one right in your town; there may be one in your state; there may be one further away. Check the phone book, then an online Yellow Pages (http://yp.yahoo.com for example). If all else fails, look on http://www.chabad.org for a Chabad House. They're a branch of Chasidism, Orthodox and very old-fashioned, but at least they'll know of something near you, in all likelihood. If there truly is nothing within a couple hundred miles of you, just plan to go to college in a town further away, with something approaching a Jewish community. There are a few, even in the Bible Belt. I'll help you look. 2. Take classes on Judaism.Almost every synagogue in the world teaches at least one Introduction to Judaism class. Their students are potential converts, Christians wanting to learn more about the way Jesus may have lived, people curious about Judaism and maybe other religions too, and even Jews who didn't get much Jewish education as kids but who want to learn now as adults. There are also classes on Judaism (and many other religions) at most universities. These may or may not be taught by someone who actually lives as an observant Jew, so be sure to ask about the professor before signing up for the class. 3. Do mitzvot.Make some small steps towards bringing mitzvot (singular: mitzvah, a 'sacred obligation', the things Jews do that distinguish us as a People and as a community) into your life. Start with a mitzvah that seems so bleedingly easy that you can't believe anyone would even have to be told specifically to do it. There's a mitzvah that says "Don't take the eggs from the nest with the mother bird watching." It doesn't require you to do anything or to go out of your way; just give it some actual thought once in a while and know that you're not distressing a mother bird by taking her eggs. Also, before you've done anything else besides dress and brush your teeth. Leave the bathroom, stand in your bedroom facing east, and spend just two minutes actively engaged in thinking about some things: * The fact that God made the heavens, the earth, and all living things.
* The fact that you were given life and allowed to wake up alive this morning.
* The fact that God chose each nation (people, descent group) to take a special role in the world, and the role Israel plays is one of keeping holiness in the world.
* That Israel was captive to Par'oh (pharaoh), but was brought out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, by Hashem ("The Name," that is, God) and not by the strength of humans. The only reason humans had to take any action for themselves instead of be lifted out of captivity was so that they would value it and learn to act in their own behalf.
* That the moment you affiliate yourself with the Jewish people, you will become an ambassador, and that all your actions and words will cause people to think about Israel and the God of Israel -- and that you want those thoughts to be thoughts of admiration, not of disdain.That's it. smile Oh, and LordNeuf, I'm not a Chasid. Chasidism is a movement which began within the Ashkenazi Jewish community, and I'm Sephardi/Mizrachi (specifically, my rav is a descendant of the Rambam, and is Egyptian, so my traditions are those of the African Jewish community).
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:37 pm
Regarding Jewish 'Hell':
-Some Jews do believe in Hell as Christians do.
-There is also a belief about the Garden of Eden (or 'Gan Eden') as the good afterlife and an 11 month- maximum punishment sentence in 'Ghenna' as the bad afterlife until rehabilitation and Gan Eden.
But don't quote me.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:06 pm
I believed in Gan Eden for a while, but have now fully accepted ideas of Reincarnation after spending a year among some Very intelligent Hindus.
The Ghenna thing, I never really believed in.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:04 pm
Didn't the books you read tell you any of this? Some of it seems pretty basic.
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