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Lesser keys of solomon(back on topic)

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BaNaNa_blend

PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:44 pm


To get us back on topic of occult discussion. I have decided to start a thread about "the lesser keys of Solomon" and demonology as whole. the issue is rather hot topic in terms that there is no right answer, and that all we can do is discuss to have a uncomfortable neutral complication of information.

To start us off Id like to give every one a healthy bit of source info if they do not know about the lesser keys of Solomon.

The book in questioning, is a grimmore that deals with the subject of 72 demons known as the Goetia demons. These demons where sealed (and to some sources, unsealed by groups of magi and occult lounges) by king Solomon. The idea expressed in the book is that these where 72 vial looking creatures, or dainty women who where of Satan. Solomon was believed to be given rings in which he can seal the different beasts, so that they could be used as work horses.

The book directs use of the summoning of said demons. Using a system known as a circle and a triangle. With proper ritual, one can bring up spirit in captive, or there willingly (the book also deals with spirits and angelic beings) into the triangle and stand protected in the circle, as they do business.

Now, we get to the subject of demons. Demon is probably the most hot bedded debate you can have in the occult next to its existence or not. Here are few definitions of demon, that I know of, PLEASE ADD IF YOU HAVE ANY YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE, I WILL ADD THEM!!!

1. The Christan/Catholic/Hebrew/ect.
A demon is a beast of satan, and is evil. There for using them like this is gods work, or is at least ok.

2. Postive demonology belief
That a demon is just a being born from repression. A god so to speak, but just in reverse. In the sense that a god rules over something, and is made because of this belief and attachment of something. So in a sense, when you repress an emotion or thought, your in theory creating a demon acording to this theory(my personal belief)

2. Negate demonology belief
same as above, but they are still wicked beast to be used.

4. animist belief
They are just spirits who have become demons

I personally believe the use in a circle for summoning, no matter how esential for your safety, is considered offensive unless you are told by said spirit/demon/god its ok. I also hate the Christan belief of demons, only the lower orders I have worked with had rubbery wings and the like, possible just because of the malformed way a demon is born.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:42 pm


i personally don't believe the circle for protection is necessary. honestly if you can't make a half decent shield or you're summoning something that can harm you without you letting it, you shouldn't be screwing around with it. confused

fluffysteel2


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:07 pm


fluffysteel2
i personally don't believe the circle for protection is necessary. honestly if you can't make a half decent shield or you're summoning something that can harm you without you letting it, you shouldn't be screwing around with it. confused


Some people just prefer using circles as an external source of protection. It's nothing to do with mental strength or shields. In the same way that some people prefer to deter danger with violence, some with charismatic presence, and some by physical protection, it's just dependent on the person's preferences.

Besides, since when was harm something you let happen to you? Or do you mean that demons can only hurt you if you let them?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:49 pm


Mitsh
fluffysteel2
i personally don't believe the circle for protection is necessary. honestly if you can't make a half decent shield or you're summoning something that can harm you without you letting it, you shouldn't be screwing around with it. confused


Some people just prefer using circles as an external source of protection. It's nothing to do with mental strength or shields. In the same way that some people prefer to deter danger with violence, some with charismatic presence, and some by physical protection, it's just dependent on the person's preferences.

Besides, since when was harm something you let happen to you? Or do you mean that demons can only hurt you if you let them?

He is saying that if you have not strengthened your self spiritually, you should not summon something you can not defend yourself against without aid of some kind of sigl.

That being said on circles, any demon I have talked to, pertaining to the goetia specifically, have told me that they HATE circles, and the license to depart or banishing ritual is the ultimate sing of disrespect. That being said, mitsh does have a valid point, you may not feal comfortable with one.

Mitsh, have you done work with spirits in particulate demons?

BaNaNa_blend


DieiNoctis

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:02 pm


Israel Regardie used circles and sigils in his work. Crowley did the same, as have almost all prominent magicians since the dawn of the mystic arts.

To say nothing of tradition, do you really think that these people all used symbols because they were weak, or simply just for flair?
If the most accomplished occultists have used symbols, there's probably a good reason for it.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:33 pm


DieiNoctis
Israel Regardie used circles and sigils in his work. Crowley did the same, as have almost all prominent magicians since the dawn of the mystic arts.

To say nothing of tradition, do you really think that these people all used symbols because they were weak, or simply just for flair?
If the most accomplished occultists have used symbols, there's probably a good reason for it.

Its not the use of sigils or symbols, I do the same. Its the use of a circle, instead of respect and the individual power of the user. In my mind, a circle "rips" lines in the astral plane so to speak. Creating a barrier spiritually what ever your summoning can not pass, nor its magickal works. Im an alchemist, alchemy is mostly symbols and sigils, but it is also about spirtually advaning your self. So, a circle to me seams not only weak, but disgraceful and an act of aggression to what your summoning.

As for crowley, I respect and admire the man, and in my mind, if would have dedicated a weekend to ascending the kundalis with out any prior knowledge other then it has been done, he would be a god and watch over places like this. I just don't support the use of circles, thats all.

As fluffy said, if you need a circle, you should not be summoning what ever it is you are calling up.

BaNaNa_blend

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