Welcome to Gaia! ::

Like I said - the point of the forums isn't to prove anything to anyone. You're in the wrong place. But let's play things your way.

You claim you want to change people, to make them stop believing in things you don't believe in without evidence -- I haven't seen you do that yet, and I don't believe you can. In fact, I think it's an extraordinary claim that you can change someone's entire belief system via your somewhat-lacking, vehemence-gushing posts - it seems illogical that someone so rhetorically impaired could shake someone's beliefs. You have stated that such extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As such, I challenge your non-scientific-and-unreasonable- (lack of)evidence; I'd like proof that you can change someone.

Change my belief-system.

You've stated that you cannot convince people away from their beliefs, but insist that people must do so. What are you waiting for, someone with magickal powers to fix it all for you?

You may keep your opinion of other people's beliefs, and you can stay in the guild for as long as you wish, but if you start being a douche about it, you can leave. This guild isn't a place where folk have the burden of proof placed on them - it's to get away from that for a while. You want to challenge folk actively espousing their creed? Fine. As you've stated many times before, you've confronted many a witch about her abilities - go find somewhere where people's rights are imposing upon yours. Otherwise, haud yer wheesht.

This may come across as a bit aggresive, perhaps even an abuse of moderator privelidges. However, I'm pretty sure most, if not all of the admins on this guild will appreciate the idea behind the maxim "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it". Espousing that you have The One Whole Scientific Truth is no better than anyone else proclaiming that they can channel the elemental plane of fire, regardless of the veracity of either statement - a thread challenging people to prove their abilities is just as ridiculous as a thread challening people to disprove the poster's abilities. As I said above, we're not here to prove anything. Our paradigm doesn't mesh with yours? That's alright, no worries, we can still be friends. However, if you start getting pissed that we don't conform to your idea of the world at large, then p'raps you should go back to the Guild Homepage, as you will find the very definition of the discussion /you/ agreed to witness while here - that of magick, psionics, religion, faith, belief and metaphysics. You will also find the Quit Guild button.

As you have stated, you can't change folks minds. Given that you are, in fact, a logical creature, the only reasonable cause for you to persist in "calling people on their bullshit" is to antagonise them, and not to help them. Given that /I/ am a logical creature, the only reasonable conclusion I can come to is to ban you for being a p***k.

You can claim all you want that you have reasoning and logic, but both of those faculties will be forever perverted by (your and my) human nature. Thus, appealing to appear more rational, and therefore more likely to be correct, is pretty fallacious. This entire argument, aflush with pertinent premises and colourful conclusions, is ultimately tainted by our own beliefs, values, ideas, and motives. It's all pretty pointless.

While we're at it, you /did/ claim to have "truth to your words" that couldn't be made manifest.

Furthermore, your comparison of reasonable events is false, too: things that have been done before are reasonable to believe in, but anything that has not been done before cannot be believed in at risk of defying common sense? If anything, this proves how faulty your application of logic really is; hopefully I don't need to point out the flaw here.

I should point out that "impossible" is a very vague, subjective term - the possible seems impossible to the people without the knowledge of how to achieve the outcome. Cashing in on vague terms does not do your argument any favours, and it's bad form to comment on things that are so outwith your paradigm that they seem impossible to you.

Please take note that all of the above doesn't actually matter, because the bottom line is this: this guild does not demand proof.. The simple reason for this is that we are expected to provide evidence of our statements in everyday life when folk similar to yourself show up. This is a purely experimental forum where people can discuss ideas without having to prove anything. Everyone here is encouraged to perform experiments by themselves, for themselves, but that is the only authentication procedure this guild operates on. Provided you've verified it to yourself, we're fine with that. Yes, this could lead to an abuse of trust or reason, but if you cannot suspend disbelief for hypothetical discussion, or distinguish when people are trying to get you to believe something for their own selfish gain, you don't belong here.

In light of what's said above, and what I've been saying repeatedly, your thread isn't welcome. If you want a guild where people have to prove what they practice, make it yourself. If you want a thread where people can opt to prove their magickal powers, don't be so antagonistic that it becomes obvious that your only purpose is to be a c**t, and people may very well play along. "nemo nisi per amicitiam cognoscitur" - "no-one learns except through friendship".

How many times does Mitsh have to say that the burden of proof is not on us? Either deal with that or GTFO. Contribute to productive discussion or GTFO. Stop attacking people or GTFO.

Be civil or GTFO.

I've offered you proof. It's not good enough for you, but that's the best you're going to find here. If you're not comfortable with that level of ambiguity then GTFO.

In short, MPRILC: Love it or GTFO.

It's interesting to me how you're willing to suspend disbelief to delve into alchemy, a practice that's been rendered obsolete and labeled as pseudo-science, yet you demand documentation of "magical" feats. What's more magical than producing a stone that can transmute matter, or creating an elixir that cures all disease.

Surely if you're not willing to belief in something as fantastic as weather manipulation or psychokinesis then you can't possibly belief in the Philosopher's Stone, in any form it may take. And before you say it: There's no proof that the Stone has ever been produced or can be produced. All there is to point to the possibility is some moldy texts that are hundreds of years old, translated several times and containing knowledge filtered through several civilizations. If you're not willing to let unseen forces participate in alchemy then you're just practicing chemistry.

It's obvious you don't see eye to eye with the people here or the worldviews presented. That's fine and dandy, but don't go challenging people and attacking their beliefs. If someone believes they can alter the weather and you don't believe they can do it then what's the harm in letting them go on with their story? So they continue on being delusional in your eyes. I don't know if anybody ever told you this, but the world does not revolve around you or your whims for what should or should not be.

If you're not going to show the proper respect for people or their beliefs and practices then you should GTFO. You can't change our minds; that should be obvious now.

I hate to be rude, but I think this needed to be said. We can all stop bothering with posting here and go off to live in peace and harmony, or we can part ways by force. I think it's obvious where the numbers lie in this one though.

Ask questions but don't attack. Attacking people doesn't do anything but set them firmer in their ways.

And as a heads up: Starting drama in this guild never works out for the betterment of anyone, least of all those starting it. We've already spent three pages arguing over things that are ultimately inconsequential.

What changed your mind about my psi wheel? You didn't seem to have very much faith in the video when I first presented it.

I hope that everyone can realize we as human beings don't always see eye to eye and get over that. But still, be civil or GTFO. That's just the way it is. The point of the guild is to learn and we haven't been doing very much of that.

Everyone here claims something with some degree of improbability. If I see you attacking anyone whom I think is here for a legitimate reason, you're gone.



No, you don't have to call them on it. It's not a compulsive need for you. To prove this, you have this last warning: attack anyone and you're out. Ask and enquire all you want, but if you start acting like you have been to anyone else, you're outta here. If it turns out you can't control this habit, then I'm afraid it's too bad for you.

I found this thread mildly interesting, although I skimmed over most of the quote-trees. This was all I found to respond to:





There are three points to this:

1. "...freedom to find something productive to do."

Well, easy. If we wanted to do something productive, we would do it. Obviously, production bores us, so we fill our lives with fantasy instead. As a self-professed fantacist, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. xd Ce la vie.

2. "I cannot stand the foolishness of claiming power but being powerless. It is arrogance and faslity, and when I see it, I challenge it. I tear down their delusions and with it, their supposed power."

...Have you considered, perhaps, that you are trying to compensate for something? To go psychoanalyst on you:

A. You could be angry at your own perceived lack of power and saying, "If I can't have it, no one can."
B. You could be upset that everyone around you seems to be grasping something that you are not, and perceive this as everyone lying to you, therefore you want them to stop lying.
C. You believe that you should have all the power, and that you can get it if you take down those who already have it. In this instance, power means a sense of authority, of being above other people in some manner, even if it's only in perception.

If none of these are the case, feel free to correct me, but think hard before you do so. In other words, make sure these aren't the case before you say they aren't.

3. "If they have no power, they have no purpose in claiming to unless they expect to be challenged."

Maybe they want to be challenged. Maybe posers just want attention, hmmm? *pretends to be Yoda* Maybe the younglings lonely are. Drama, want.[/silliness] They want a stir, or at least people to think they have something interesting to say. People like to be special.