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 Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:00 pm
Being jewish.... well i have a couple of questions that i hope someone can answer.
1. Why should i go to services if i am going to fall alseep or be very uninterested?
and
2. Why should i fast on Yom Kippur? (more than feel the pain; focus on the soul)
Services are EXTREMELY boring to me and i dislike attending them, my mom says that you should do things in your religion in your own way. Whether it's attending services (if thats what you like) or helping the poor. But its all become so confusing and I want someone else's perspective.
Thanks!
Princess Tadakichi
p.s.- i'm a kid who doesnt really give a s**t about most things, so i want to know why should i care about services?
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:40 am
I'll field this one...
First the purpose of going to shul, even if you're just going to fall asleep.
Ecumenical Answer : Because it's a Mitzvah, and it's something that should be done for custom and tradition.
Neufian Answer : Because going to shul is supposed to give you a sense of belonging in the community as a whole. Also, it's supposed to take you out of the mundane world and into the spiritual world. Ever notice Jews at shul taking a step forward and a step back when the rabbi says "Please rise while we open the ark." Then these same Jews start swaying, bowing, doing their thing. That's them trying to cross over from the mundane into the spiritual world. Spiritually they're no longer on planet earth, they're before HASHEM, in his court in heaven, praising him for his power and majesty and begging forgiveness for their own short comings.
Remember, Yom Kippor is not about atoning for faults against other people, those you have to reconcile yourself. Yom Kippor is about atoning for faults you made before HASHEM. It's not about going up to HASHEM and saying "Oh Lord, oooh, you are so big, so very very big, gosh, we're all really impressed down here." It's about going before HASHEM and saying "Um, forgive me... I think I may have done something to upset you. I ask in for your divine wisdom to show me my own faults, and help prevent them in the future."
and now why to fast...
Ecumenical Answer : On Yom Kippor, Jews are to emulate what it is to be before HASHEM, to be in heaven as an angel. Jews therefore should act as angels would, do not eat, drink, bathe, wear leather, and be humble before HASHEM.
Neufian Answer : It's an act of devotion and a showing of self discipline.
Acts of devotion are signals to the community as a whole, that you are part of the religion. Just as wearing a Yamakule is an act of Devotion. You're devoting yourself to be Jewish and showing that you're serious and not just along for the ride.
The self discipline part is proving to yourself that you're serious. This is something that is not involving the rest of the community. This just proves to yourself that you're serious. No one's going to look over your shoulder to see if you sneaked a bag of M&Ms into your Talis bag. No one's going to come to your house to see if you're having a sandwich between the Marhariv and the Musaf.
You fast not because you have to, but because you can, if only to prove to yourself how serious you are about being Jewish.
Also... Yom Kippor is pretty hardcore. There's no celebration, it's a day of atonement and self reflection. It is boring, it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be exciting, it's a long boring extremely serious religious experience. Not everyone can get into it.
Lucky for you, you have an opportunity to see Jews in a more festive mode. Sukkot is on Monday night. Go to shul Monday night, it will be more fun than Yom Kippor. AND ... Sukkot is the Holiday designed to be for vegetarians. It's the harvest celebration, a celebration of the earth and a day where Jews everywhere abstain from meat.
Bring Tomo with ya =D
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:25 pm
LordNeuf I'll field this one... First the purpose of going to shul, even if you're just going to fall asleep. Ecumenical Answer : Because it's a Mitzvah, and it's something that should be done for custom and tradition. Neufian Answer : Because going to shul is supposed to give you a sense of belonging in the community as a whole. Also, it's supposed to take you out of the mundane world and into the spiritual world. Ever notice Jews at shul taking a step forward and a step back when the rabbi says "Please rise while we open the ark." Then these same Jews start swaying, bowing, doing their thing. That's them trying to cross over from the mundane into the spiritual world. Spiritually they're no longer on planet earth, they're before HASHEM, in his court in heaven, praising him for his power and majesty and begging forgiveness for their own short comings. Remember, Yom Kippor is not about atoning for faults against other people, those you have to reconcile yourself. Yom Kippor is about atoning for faults you made before HASHEM. It's not about going up to HASHEM and saying "Oh Lord, oooh, you are so big, so very very big, gosh, we're all really impressed down here." It's about going before HASHEM and saying "Um, forgive me... I think I may have done something to upset you. I ask in for your divine wisdom to show me my own faults, and help prevent them in the future." and now why to fast... Ecumenical Answer : On Yom Kippor, Jews are to emulate what it is to be before HASHEM, to be in heaven as an angel. Jews therefore should act as angels would, do not eat, drink, bathe, wear leather, and be humble before HASHEM. Neufian Answer : It's an act of devotion and a showing of self discipline. Acts of devotion are signals to the community as a whole, that you are part of the religion. Just as wearing a Yamakule is an act of Devotion. You're devoting yourself to be Jewish and showing that you're serious and not just along for the ride. The self discipline part is proving to yourself that you're serious. This is something that is not involving the rest of the community. This just proves to yourself that you're serious. No one's going to look over your shoulder to see if you sneaked a bag of M&Ms into your Talis bag. No one's going to come to your house to see if you're having a sandwich between the Marhariv and the Musaf. You fast not because you have to, but because you can, if only to prove to yourself how serious you are about being Jewish. Also... Yom Kippor is pretty hardcore. There's no celebration, it's a day of atonement and self reflection. It is boring, it's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be exciting, it's a long boring extremely serious religious experience. Not everyone can get into it. Lucky for you, you have an opportunity to see Jews in a more festive mode. Sukkot is on Monday night. Go to shul Monday night, it will be more fun than Yom Kippor. AND ... Sukkot is the Holiday designed to be for vegetarians. It's the harvest celebration, a celebration of the earth and a day where Jews everywhere abstain from meat. Bring Tomo with ya =D That does explain a lot! Thanks! But unfortunatly Tomo's dad (sorry tomo) is a hard a** and insists that she have nothing to do with shull (the one that they broke away from) but anyways thanks for explaining! PT
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:32 pm
Still you can go... OR... do it at the house. I think Tomo's dad would appreciate a private sukkah party. You will need, 1 hope depot... a power saw... about half a dozen 16 foot 2x4s, A drill, carriage bolts, a few rolls of chicken wire... and some sampson hangers and 6d nails, or woodscrews to hold everything together. If you want I can show you plans. It doesn't have to be big, just a squarish building in the shape of one of the 3 letters that spell Sukkah. Samech, Kuff or Hey. 
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:10 pm
I'm going to try to handle these, but I'll do them out of order.
1. Why fast?
Fasting is a way to: emulate angelic behavior; afflict the body and the soul and show true penitence; remind oneself forcibly of why we give to support the hungry and homeless; prove to ourselves our own seriousness in our approach to our Jewishness. Neuf was great at elucidating these points. I also suspect that, being a thoughtful person yourself, you'll think about each of these things in your own mind and elaborate on them until you do understand them.
2. Why go to services?
This one's a bit more complicated. We can pray alone, it's true. But part of the Yom Kippur prayers require each of us to say, "We have sinned against you. We have sinned against one another. We have committed theft. We have committed adultery. We have committed idolatry. We have..." and so on. Note, it says we did all these things. Each thing we confess to doing, we thump our fist over our hearts, claiming each wrongdoing as our own, even if "you" or "I" individually haven't done them.
Why?
Because as a community, a nation, a people, we have done them. Either I myself have done something I shouldn't or failed to do something I should, or the person next to me -- family, friend, or stranger -- has done it or failed to do it. When we pray these prayers, we acknowledge that we have failed. I've done wrong... and the person next to me has failed to be enough of a friend to see me going in a wrong direction and offer me correction. The person next to me has failed to do right, and I've failed to be enough of a friend to point out to them the mitzvah they're missing out on.
Claiming our sins of doing and our sins of not-doing, together, communally, we make a tacit promise to be better in the future ourselves, and to help our fellow Jew to better himself or herself as well. When we claim our own wrongdoings as well as our neighbor's wrongdoings, we're committing to Hashem, to ourselves, and to the entire family of Israel. We're saying, "I wasn't there for you when you were hurting or confused, and when the first germ of murder/adultery/theft/dishonesty entered your mind. I wasn't there to strengthen you so that you could resist the evil inclination that we all possess. I wasn't there when you first did what you did (or didn't do what you should've done), to remind you of the way to repentance and show you how to come right with your family, your world, your community, your boss, your (our) God. I'm going to help you now, and I'm sorry for letting you down." It's very cathartic. It's also a way of supporting others, and gaining support from them.
If you're falling asleep, either you're genuinely exhausted, or it's because you aren't taking the atonement seriously enough to be able to focus on it. Maybe this year your task should be to attend a religious service once a month. It'll make you comfortable with the people, the Hebrew, and the general tone of Jewish prayer.
It'll also help to buy a prayer book and promise yourself at least one solo prayer session per week -- morning, afternoon, or evening, Shabbat or weekday. This will let you go at your own pace, in English, and really understand what you're praying about. I highly recommend The Orot Sephardic Weekday Siddur and The Orot Sephardic Shabbat Siddur for Sephardi prayer, or the Rabbinical Council of America Edition of the Artscroll Siddur - Ashkenaz for Ashkenazi prayer. They're only slightly different, the Ashkenazi and Sephardi prayers, so right at the beginning it won't make an enormous difference which one you use. Just get familiar with them and comfortable with them during the year, and maybe next Yom Kippur you'll find that you're not having as big a problem with sleepiness during services.
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:07 am
and now for another view on religion.... ladies and gentlemen... I give you... LEWIS BLACK http://www.filefreak.com/pfiles/76854/Lewis Black - Yom Kippur.mp3
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm
Princess Tadakichi That does explain a lot! Thanks! But unfortunatly Tomo's dad (sorry tomo) is a hard a** and insists that she have nothing to do with shull (the one that they broke away from) but anyways thanks for explaining! PT
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