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Artemesia_of_Persia Vice Captain
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:39 am
What do people thing zombie movies are really about? Why are they so popular?
Zombie Musings
I was watching a docu on Horror movies of the '60's and 70's and during a discussion of the Romero oeuvre, someone claimed that cannibalism is a primal fear going back to when we are small and adult make omnomnom noises and say things like, "What a cute baby, I could just eat it up!" This got me thinking about zombies and primal fears. As far as I can tell, I have no fear of cannibalism at all, no primal horror. Instead, for me, zombies represent the loss of identity, of rationality, of self. They shuffle along like Alzheimer's patients, laking any real knowledge of who they are, but following ingrained patterns and basic urges. That's horrifying, really. so is the idea of someone one has loved, changed into something else, malevolent and dangerous; I've been there RL so many times. Then there is the crowd element. As someone who's had a small mob of people all trying to touch me, to grab me, that aspect of zombies harks to something real and unnerving. Mobs can rip you apart if they love you as well as hate you and there is something in obsession that seeks to destroy and make over the person that sparked the obsession. Mobs and the loss of identity is for me a much more potent thing than the simple fear of cannibalism. The cannibalism here symbolizes for me subsumption of the self to the mob mind.
What do people think?
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:47 pm
I couldn't agree more. The cannibalism aspect of zombie movies is creepy, certainly, but that's not where the big fear is, to me anyway. The loss of identity and self-control, that's truly frightening. The fact that anyone you know could turn into a zombie, coming to bite/claw/maim/kill, and your only recourse is to kill them, that's horrific. I've had nightmares where I'm fleeing from family members turned into zombies, or hesitating to kill them (with whatever weapon is at hand -- I've never owned a gun, nor would I ever want to, but thanks to video games like Resident Evil, I always seem to have a shotgun or Magnum in these dreams) because, ya know, they're family. That's real horror, to me.
And the threat of identity loss, that I could be transformed into one of these mindless automatons, existing only to shuffle along, looking for someone to bite. *shudder* That's the fear in my mind in those nightmares. Not that I'll be killed, but that I'll become one of the zombies myself.
And of course, the mob aspect is absolutely terrifying. I don't do well in crowds of living people as it is. Being surrounded by a crowd of the undead, all trying to bite and rend, would be a complete nightmare.
As far as zombie movies are concerned, I've noticed (and had pointed out to me, of course) that one big theme is that the human survivors turn out to be more inhumane than the zombies themselves. Look at Romero's first Night of the Living Dead. That's the real message in the movie. The survivors turn on each other, are willing to sacrifice each other to survive. Basically, they act more monstrous than the monsters, who are only acting on instinct. Ever since, that's been one of the major themes. Every zombie movie I can think of, there's always one or more characters who are complete dicks, acting only in self-interest to the detriment of the group. If they could just work together, you know they'd be able to survive. But they don't.
And let's not forget the next step in this selfishness, the ones who exploit the zombies for entertainment. I'm thinking of the end of Night of the Living Dead, where 'hunters' are proudly displaying zombie corpses, like hunting trophies. Gah, I can't think of the name of it (Dawn of the Dead?), but the relatively recent film where they're trapped in a mall. They're up on the roof, communicating via signs with the gunshop owner across the street, and he uses a high-powered rifle to shoot zombies in the parking lot. Everyone takes turns pointing out which zombies he should shoot, and then hoot with laughter. The third, I think, Resident Evil movie, where the heroine is lured into a trap by rednecks who keep a starving zombie in a pen, so they can watch it tear apart the people they've trapped. This is humanity at its lowest, and you almost feel sorry for the zombies. You certainly don't like the humans very much.
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:07 am
Romero goes further in Land of the dead, by deliberately making that one band of zombies more sympathetic than most of the heroes. Who didn't cheer when gas station zombie went for the Dennis Hopper character?
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:35 pm
Ah, I haven't seen it. In fact, there are far too many zombie movies I haven't seen. Even the incredibly bad ones scare the snot out of me. The Dawn of the Dead remake gave me nightmares. Actually, the preview for it that came on TV around the time it was opening in theatres gave me nightmares, because the zombies were running! Since when can zombies move that fast?
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:38 am
I'm philosophically opposed to the whole "fast zombie" concept.
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:01 am
1. Zombie apocalypse is an end of the world scenario that can't actually happen, so it's a safe kind of scary.
2. Zombies are the great leveler, the ultimate everyman. This can be seen in things like the cathartic moment in Land of the Dead when the racist let them eat cake aristocrats get munched by the working class super zombies we are half rooting for.
3. Zombies secretly feed the Mary Sue in all of us. Let's laugh a little at the hare krishna zombie or the shuffling hordes returning in undeath to the mall. They are all mindless sheep but we, the heroes, are hard bitten survivors.
4. I think there is something in all of us that wants to break the rules: steal the copter, loot the mall, run over all those slow shambling people in our way.
5. Why now? Imaginary zombie apocalypse survivor fantasies are a lot easier to handle than the real political situation here and abroad. some of us also feel we are surrounded by scary mindless sheep voting to destroy everything we hold dear. Also, some of the best zombie narratives look suspiciously like accounts of the Iraq War. I think this is the same impulse that caused people to do things like talk about the Vietnam War through things like MASH. Looking directly at the horror is painful and depressing, but filtering the national trauma through a fictional lens gives the viewer/reader enough distance to start processing.
World War Z never mentions the name or party of the US president, but it's clearly talking about things like Iraq and Katrina and Halliburton, even as it skewers the Russian disorganization and the callousnesses of it's government and that of the Chinese. The global catastrophe is created by the sins of world governments and the greed of private individuals. The world is also eventually saved by a combination of individual intelligence/heroism and tough minded governments and individuals who do the right thing. It is ultimately about hope and destruction both. So is Land of the Dead which intimates that maybe humans don't deserve to continue if this is how they treat each other, but offers a more mutually cooperative zombie culture that is just beginning during the course of the film. These are essentially telling the flood story, the destruction of a corrupt world to make room for something new. It's a dark vision, but understandable in the face of violence abroad and rising fascism at home.
6. The heroes in zombie apocalypse stories are also everyman characters. In a zombie apocalypse, ordinary people are much more valuable than obnoxious rich bastards. The cop, the paramedic, the nurse, the mechanic, and the truck driver are worth way more than someone with a stock portfolio. In the zombie apocalypse working class people are finally recognized for their real value, and the audience cheers when the rich cowardly opportunist buys it. Tell me that doesn't have a deep psychological appeal to the average movie goer?
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:00 am
Gwion Vaughn 1. Zombie apocalypse is an end of the world scenario that can't actually happen, so it's a safe kind of scary.
It could happen! I saw it in a movie once....
Gwion Vaughn 5. Why now? Imaginary zombie apocalypse survivor fantasies are a lot easier to handle than the real political situation here and abroad. some of us also feel we are surrounded by scary mindless sheep voting to destroy everything we hold dear. Also, some of the best zombie narratives look suspiciously like accounts of the Iraq War. I think this is the same impulse that caused people to do things like talk about the Vietnam War through things like MASH. Looking directly at the horror is painful and depressing, but filtering the national trauma through a fictional lens gives the viewer/reader enough distance to start processing.
6. The heroes in zombie apocalypse stories are also everyman characters. In a zombie apocalypse, ordinary people are much more valuable than obnoxious rich bastards. The cop, the paramedic, the nurse, the mechanic, and the truck driver are worth way more than someone with a stock portfolio. In the zombie apocalypse working class people are finally recognized for their real value, and the audience cheers when the rich cowardly opportunist buys it. Tell me that doesn't have a deep psychological appeal to the average movie goer?
These are actually very insightful points (actually, they're all insightful, but these two stood out for me). I think you're absolutely right. The world's population continues to grow exponentially. There have been far too freakin' many people on the planet for decades, and the situation is only getting worse. Fast. We're literally surrounded by huge masses of people every day. The problem is that, while populations increase exponentially, resources do not. We're only just beginning to realize how desperate the energy situation is (though we've been warned for at least the last 30-40 years -- I distinctly remember my 2nd grade teacher warning us of an energy crisis), and too few people are warning about what that energy crisis means to other resources, like food and water. Without fuel, our agricultural capacity will plummet. We won't be able to get clean, fresh water to everyone's homes. Add climate change to the mix, and you start to realize that we're on the verge of a real apocalypse.
And what happens if we have a major energy crisis? What happens if we have two or three really crappy agricultural seasons in a row? What happens if the energy crisis happens at the same time as the severe droughts? We're going to have billions of very hungry people around the world, and millions and millions right here in the US. How long would it be before masses of starving people begin shuffling through our overcrowded cities, searching for something to eat? How many would resort to cannibalism, rather than starvation? Probably more than any of us would like to think about. And isn't that pretty much the setting of every zombie movie? Hungry, mindless masses, hunting for food?
So it's no surprise that the movies you mention point the finger of blame at various governments. After all, our own government has done little to prepare for the imminent crisis, and our officials' condescending attitude toward the public does nothing to alleviate our fears. Rather than deal with the real issues that face us, our governments are busy rattling their sabers and fighting pointless wars, lining their own pockets with war profits, while distracting the populace. When you think about it, a zombie apocalypse is actually less scary than what's happening in the real world. At least the zombies are only following their instincts for survival. Unlike our leaders, who are eating us alive for money and power. eek
And like Niran, I am philosophically opposed to fast-moving zombies.
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:00 am
BatWulf So it's no surprise that the movies you mention point the finger of blame at various governments. After all, our own government has done little to prepare for the imminent crisis, and our officials' condescending attitude toward the public does nothing to alleviate our fears. Rather than deal with the real issues that face us, our governments are busy rattling their sabers and fighting pointless wars, lining their own pockets with war profits, while distracting the populace. When you think about it, a zombie apocalypse is actually less scary than what's happening in the real world. At least the zombies are only following their instincts for survival. Unlike our leaders, who are eating us alive for money and power. eek As I type this, the levies are in danger of failing in new Orleans because they still haven't done any maintenance on the ones that didn't fail last time. After all it's not like we've had any recent reminders that levies need maintenance or anything like say a really big hurricane drowning most of new Orleans a couple springs ago. just ask McCain, we're way better off investing a huge amount of lives and money in a never ending war in iraq than wasting it like the liberals want on things like infrastructure and education.
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Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:36 am
A thing looking at zombie movies correlating with crisis and unrest: http://io9.com/5070243/war-and-social-upheaval-cause-spikes-in-zombie-movie-production
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:49 pm
Another Zombie Musing
The following will contain some spoilers for movies that have been out for some time. Read at your own risk.
One of the things I find most interesting about zombie scenarios is the bit that gets short shrift in most movies or stories (Not all. I can think of a list of exceptions, some of which I'm going to discuss). The thing that really interests me is the process of society unraveling.
Think about it. The Dawn of the Dead remake starts with a baseline, a busy hospital, the tightly woven pattern of the suburban neighborhood. The heroine awakes to a hint of something wrong, followed by horror. She escapes into a world gone wrong. I think this is one of the strongest sequences in that movie, particularly the beautiful shots of the chaos going on behind her as she flees.
Shaun of the Dead has one of the best depictions of unraveling that I've seen. All the beautiful little set up sequences, interspersed with hints of things wrong: people calling in sick, the homeless man chasing pigeons, the person collapsing on the sidewalk, the sick on the bus. The build is slow and beautiful. How often have we each passed, drive3n, or ridden by someone maybe mentally ill, sick, or intoxicated behaving oddly. how often do we say anything? I once got chewed out at the library where I worked for calling in someone obviously distressed outside to emergency services. If one lives in a population center of any size, one is trained subtly or unsubtly to hurry pass, to look away. The bits outside the bar could have been any one of hundreds of youTube clips taken by people mocking the extremely intoxicated they have stumbled upon on the street. In Zombie films, it is the helpful strangers and the first responders who generally die first. I think part of the genius of Shaun is the distortion of patterns and the initial obliviousness of the protagonists in the face of what looks to be societal collapse. So familiar, so funny, so horrible, so human.
I recently stumbled on a cable showing of Dairy of the Dead. My initial assessment of all the things wrong with the film still stands. Watching it on the small screen was an improvement as I could do something else during the long boring, whiny bits. I kept thinking that the really interesting parts were mostly off screen while instead we were forced to follow these incredibly annoying and banal people we don't care about. They come on the hospital after all the really interesting things have happened and we are left to try to piece together a sequence of events that was vastly more interesting than any of the action in the film. Similarly, I wonder how that poor Amish gentleman found out the zombie apocalypse was on. Later, there's the bad of significantly more competent and less annoying African Americans they come across. What was their story? How did they deal with the initial outbreak? What happened later? watching it, I'm busy thinking of better movies that could have been made from the promising pieces stuck like gems in a pile of feces. I still love the ending, I think because we are able to picture how we got there, the pieces we are handed of the events in the mansion are enough to make the unspoken bits extra powerful, and the denouement unwinds with an inevitability that seems fitting. Too bad there aren't any likeable characters to give it real impact, but the falling apart of everything, society, hope, the situation at the mansion, the sanity of the characters all gives it the same fascination of a building being demolished.
I've been watching my own country unravel for some time. I can't tell if have passed the point of no return or not. I think there's something there. Zombies are about mobs, about the slide into dementia, about the collapse of society as a whole into chaos and death. I read about bubonic plague over and over as the gay men of my generation were dying in droves from our own modern plague. Joe Haldeman wrote Forever War about a science fictional war because he wasn't ready to write about Vietnam with out a layer of metaphor or two. Sometimes a bit of fictional distance helps a person or a society start processing the big things. Humor helps too. (I'm looking at you, Shaun and Zombieland). Zombies are about the big things, when you scratch past the first layer of skin.
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Artemesia_of_Persia Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:27 am
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