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Captain Dastardly

PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:17 pm


I'ven't too much time to type, but my view is that creationism (that everything we know now is stable and was created by some higher power, how I think of it) is simply scientifically ugly.

From all of my science-oriented education, the Big Bang (which, CB, is just as credible now as any other theorem) is elegant (aside from something I'll touch on later). Everything was contained in one point that collapsed, and from that, only three most basic building blocks were needed to make existence.

Similarly to how CB stated it, there was something that created all of the material needed to make existence as we know it, and a stage on which to play. The ugliest part to the Big Bang is what created this, which is entirely unexplained.

Matter condensed into what we know, humans, planets, air, animals, everything.

An analogy is that when you microwave something in a container (Tupperware!), water is evenly distributed over the lid at first. After a little while, the water coalesces into bigger droplets, the same way matter and energy do into everything we see now.

One small problem with all of this is that the most elegant theory says that the original singularity containing all matter and energy should have dispersed equal amounts of matter and antimatter (which has been proven to exist, and behave exactly like normal matter, except that its gravitational fields are negative that of normal matter, and all of the charges are reversed) uniformly, meaning there should be none of either (when antimatter and matter come into contact, they annihilate, converting into pure energy). Because equal amounts would be dispersed in the same directions, it would've likely meant that it all would've annihilated, or that there would still be antimatter floating around where we are, which makes no sense, since nothing is blowing up randomly.

In the end, I am agnostic, and can reconcile my beliefs with science.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:43 pm


In my opinion, religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Science only seeks to explain how events occur, while religion provides the why, the reasoning behind these happenings. For example, building off of what you said, that one thing that set the big bang in motion could have been a god (or God). There are so many possibilities that could happen, so many events that could have gone wrong but didn't that it makes it hard to say there isn't some higher power, be it luck, magic, a deity, or whatever you want it to be.

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Captain Dastardly

PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:10 pm


I suppose that's where I can't agree with you.
All of those people who claim that something must exist because of everything that could've gone wrong but didn't...
(Though, in this case I do agree with luck 3nodding )

The way I see it, if something had gone wrong, we wouldn't be here. Just because we're here doesn't mean that we were protected, it just means that we've dodged a lot of bullets.

In another argument, it's not because we're here that our environment suits us. It's because the environment suits us that we're here. That's the whole concept behind evolution.
I'd say that's why evolution and creationism can never reconcile. Those two ideas are mutually exclusive.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:14 pm


Okay, I never said that evolution and creationism were not mutually exclusion. I said science and religion were not mutually exclusive. As in, you can be a scientist/ study science and still believe in a God. Science does not take away the beauty. I did not say that something must exist just because everything that could have gone wrong didn't. I merely pointed out that there is still room to believe in a God when studying science. I am skeptical of either side ( I think I would consider myself agnostic), so don't classify me as one of "those people."

If someone is atheist and wants to study science, he can. If someone is religious, he can still study science, study how the world is formed, without having to bring religion into it. the point was simply that you can study nature without excluding the practice of religion.

If you see evidence for a god, fine; if you don't, good for you. The opportunities are there and can support either side. As humans we don't know what is true. Therefore, the opportunities and the side you pick can be true for you. (I'm not sure if that make sense, but I think you know what I was trying to say.)

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Captain Dastardly

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:52 pm


I didn't disagree with you. I do not believe that religion and science are mutually exclusive.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:53 pm


My point on God is that of both acknowledgement and understanding on a mutual level, even to the point I can say I believe in God proudly, but at the same time I must admit that I have my doubts. But on your reading of the Bible and the Quran, as a educated and cultured fellow whose Muslim grandparents taught me a far share of the religion yet I'm going to Catholic school, you SHOULD NEVER read those religious books literally EVER.
1.) They aren't necessarily supposed to be novel's either, and rather are interpretations of events exaggerated through ages of story telling before actually being written in order to give a message to the believers of that particular religion to set a base work of morals and understandings. Without it at that tribal time (which is something you need to research in order to understand the Bible fully), much havoc would ensue, although the tribal era applies more to the Torah or 'Old Testimate' we often see mentioned in Christian Theology. As for the Bible's new testimate and the actual books in the Quran, the stories are also supposed to give messages, although certain figures and such have rather sketchy backgrounds such as Jesus of Nazareth or 'Christ' who was never once mentioned in Roman documents yet is included in some of the documents written by several famous historians in that area at the time around what is considered Israel. And as for out interpretation of Religion, we once again are finding more information on these figures such as the fact Christ was a short, dark skinned fellow rather than the tall, lean, white, and rather handsome bearded fellow we see in all the chapels. Religion is growing with our understanding of history, and though it has it's gaps, it's meant to teach us about life in general and help us grow, not to hinder.

2.) As fir God's existence and creationism vs. Evolution, we do have to consider a lot of factors here since it's quite a debated topic. In fundamentalist views that 'The Earth was Created in Seven Days...', this can easily be disregarded since the interpretation is not as intended. I've spoken to Rabbi's before, and one of the things they always mention first at the mention of the topic is that God's time is not Our time, that perhaps by 7 days they perhaps mean like 7 billion years rather. That can be considered, yet slightly unbelievable. But on the side of Evolution, it is a fully proven theory about how the Earth's violent creation with asteroids and other objects smashing into Earth allowed certain chemicals with the right energy based environments and high impact and starting energy to form proteins which later bonded into prokaryotes and later through BILLIONS of years into us does make sense if you study it thoroughly like I do. While at the same time, you have to consider that though all the conditions made it possible for Earth to exist and Life to happen, the chances of Human beings like us appearing or life even existing through such a violent system and general Galaxy. Our universe was created on violence, but for some reason, our planet, hopefully like a few others, managed to harbor life in such slim odds, and that's where I start to believe God's influence had play. The chances of all these effects, regardless of the chemicals and such that were needed being there, going right all in such are so slim that some other force HAD to be there. There is no way I can deny it at this point.

And as for God in general, I believe he didn't need to put us here since what he started practically finished itself, but there are moments of profound spirituality and sacredness one can experience in life, through loved ones, prayer, etc. that can drive you to believe that God's there. And through that, I am Gnostic and proud yet believe in the workings of science =]. But I hold no religion since I’m still searching for a group of worship that believes the way I do..

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:43 am


Captain Dastardly
I didn't disagree with you. I do not believe that religion and science are mutually exclusive.



I see that now. Sorry :/
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:40 pm


Eleiza0250
Captain Dastardly
I didn't disagree with you. I do not believe that religion and science are mutually exclusive.



I see that now. Sorry :/

No prob, bby. 8]

Captain Dastardly

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