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Zekio Guerllem

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:07 pm


Well, let me throw down my main points for not teaching religion in schools:

Bias: When people tell me, they're teaching "religion" in schools, it's usual a form of Creationism trying to pass as science. If they're going to teach religion, I say teach them all or teach none.

Religion is Personal: Religion is a matter of personal choice and belief. Science is empirical and not meant to be personal.

Religion Cannot Be Proven: Religion cannot be proven or disproven, it is all a matter of faith. Science attempts to use reason, logic, and empirical data to prove what it states. As thus, it doesn't try to explain the whole picture, because we can't without faith.

I guess, in the end, I wouldn't have such a problem with religion being taught in schools if it was presented as belief, and if it spanned across bother religions, neither of which are likely.

As for public school making atheists, I wouldn't know. I just started going to public high school for my junior year. Seventh through tenth grade was in Lutheran education, which only hardened my atheistic beliefs.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:05 am


1) That is exactly what I was suggesting; teaching religious diversity, not indoctrinating in one of them.

2) Anything that relates to yourself is personal, including science. If I were to insult science, those who believe science is infalliable are as likely to take it perosnally as those who think their religion is infalliable.

3) Religion can be proven. Just not via empiricism in all cases.


Aaand... I have class now... sweatdrop

Starlock
Vice Captain


Kalorn
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:40 pm


Starlock
Aaah, it can be difficult to understand if one has not thought in this way before. You have to forget about the scientific mechanisms for a second, and forget all the evidence for them.

Then look at something like a tree, and wonder how it got to be the way it is. Why does it grow as tall as it does? Why does it have that shape?

Science can give us some of these answers, but do we ever really know the whole answer? It'd be pretty arrogant of humanity to think that it can, given our species bias and sensual limitations. What if the way we see things is off by a bit? By a lot? Can we ever know, then, why a thing is the way it is in terms of absolute truth?
^_^ i see. people have asked me before about different things like eyes: how can sometime like an eye evolve? the more i learn about the physiology, the more obvious it becomes. i was expecting an answer like that. but i completely agree with you in this aspect. i often feel that Divinity is in the Physical Constants that we observe. like why is the speed of light what it is? why is there gravity? why does and electron have the mass it does?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:36 am


Kalorn
Like why is the speed of light what it is? why is there gravity? why does and electron have the mass it does?

Now, those are things that I've definitely wondered.

But, what use is a problem that you can't solve?

Mechanism


Starlock
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:37 am


Mechanism
Kalorn
Like why is the speed of light what it is? why is there gravity? why does and electron have the mass it does?

Now, those are things that I've definitely wondered.

But, what use is a problem that you can't solve?


The whole point is that you can't solve everything. Humans are limited. We can't understand everything, and the things we do understand we can never be certain if we're seeing it objectively. We aren't seeing it objectively in probably all cases. We evaluate the world using an exclusively human point of view; right there is a severe bias. It will be a fantastic day when we encounter an offworld species we can communicate with. It will bring our biases as a species to the forefront and maybe then we'll have a more balanced understanding of the universe. whee
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:28 am


Starlock
The whole point is that you can't solve everything. Humans are limited.

Most practical problems can be solved to a reasonable degree.
Thus, it's worth trying to solve such problems.
But that's not true of some more philosophical questions.

Starlock
We aren't seeing it objectively in probably all cases.

That word is used in so many ways, I'm starting to get confused.
I thought that it's impossible for humans to see things objectively, since we're 'subjects'. A person can't see outside their own viewpoint, because then it wouldn't be their viewpoint.

Starlock
It will bring our biases as a species to the forefront and maybe then we'll have a more balanced understanding of the universe.

Indeed. My opinion is that all values are biases.

Mechanism

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Religious Tolerance

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