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 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:18 am
Mr. Graves I started typing up a response, but realized it all sounded a lot like this. This is squarely directed at you, Zerotica and Chrono911. Please take the time to read it before saying how it was too long, but the ideas contained inside were stupid anyway. http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
Thanks for trying to insult me though, all you ended up doing was crashing my net with that link lawlz
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:27 am
I would say hunters in general have a harder time hitting the top of the damage meters in a PvE setting (mainly raids) compared to other classes. Thats where huntards come from though, trying to hit tp damage in a raid instead of being smart about damage.
Wing Clip, if improved, leave me sitting there for 5 seconds to receive a volley of arcane shots, stings, traps, auto shots etc. But what do we have close up? Death coil, but that has a cd.
It doesnt just effect locks. If i played a mage, i bet max would stfu about my arguements dealing with hunters. Blink puts some distance, frost nova does the same. Vanish gets you out of their range, blind, etc etc. But all locks have is DC. Fear too, but that gets diminished real fast.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:29 pm
chrono911 Zerotica I would say hunters in general have a harder time hitting the top of the damage meters in a PvE setting (mainly raids) compared to other classes.
Wing Clip, if improved, leave me sitting there for 5 seconds to receive a volley of arcane shots, stings, traps, auto shots etc. But what do we have close up? Death coil, but that has a cd.
It doesnt just effect locks. If i played a mage, i bet max would stfu about my arguements dealing with hunters. Blink puts some distance, frost nova does the same. Vanish gets you out of their range, blind, etc etc. But all locks have is DC. Fear too, but that gets diminished real fast.Hunters seriously are not as bad as you make them out to be. I use the SL/SL spec for when I PvP, and I can get enough damage reduction and heals from life drain and siphon life effects maintain myself against most everything they can throw at me. I normally just do what I always do: Fear - dot dot dot - life drain - fear - life drain - reestablish dots - life drain, and usually they are either close to dead or running away at that point. BM Hunters are annoying, but definitely not impossible, normally I just put on my dots, and continuously life drain, using health stones in between until the Hunters Beast Within wears off, where I then death coil the Hunter and continue the above routine. I know it's easier said than done, but seriously man, Hunters are fine. I mean if they're not BM spec, and you have troubles with a Hunter because of a three second silence effect, wyvern sting, and/or a trap, then you need to improve on your PvP skills.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:51 pm
Zerotica chrono911 Zerotica I would say hunters in general have a harder time hitting the top of the damage meters in a PvE setting (mainly raids) compared to other classes.
Wing Clip, if improved, leave me sitting there for 5 seconds to receive a volley of arcane shots, stings, traps, auto shots etc. But what do we have close up? Death coil, but that has a cd.
It doesnt just effect locks. If i played a mage, i bet max would stfu about my arguements dealing with hunters. Blink puts some distance, frost nova does the same. Vanish gets you out of their range, blind, etc etc. But all locks have is DC. Fear too, but that gets diminished real fast.Hunters seriously are not as bad as you make them out to be. I use the SL/SL spec for when I PvP, and I can get enough damage reduction and heals from life drain and siphon life effects maintain myself against most everything they can throw at me. I normally just do what I always do: Fear - dot dot dot - life drain - fear - life drain - reestablish dots - life drain, and usually they are either close to dead or running away at that point. BM Hunters are annoying, but definitely not impossible, normally I just put on my dots, and continuously life drain, using health stones in between until the Hunters Beast Within wears off, where I then death coil the Hunter and continue the above routine. I know it's easier said than done, but seriously man, Hunters are fine. I mean if they're not BM spec, and you have troubles with a Hunter because of a three second silence effect, wyvern sting, and/or a trap, then you need to improve on your PvP skills.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:39 pm
Zerotica Kiloran balancing skills for both pvp and pve at the same time aren't more difficult than just balancing for pvp. balance around pvp, then build boss fights around the skills that are there in pvp... If I wanted to play a game like that, I would be playing Guild Wars. um, no? haven't you noticed how the boss fights work, and how pvp works? that's exactly how you're supposed to do it, and that's how blizz does it.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:24 pm
Zerotica I would say hunters in general have a harder time hitting the top of the damage meters in a PvE setting (mainly raids) compared to other classes. Our hunters are always top DPS on raids, most of the time at least anyway. So Im thinking if your hunters arent topping meeters then either they're a bit crap, or they're sorely outgeared. Today I found out hunters with 8.6% hit never miss. They have 0 base miss chance... every single shot hits the target... come on, you have to admit thats a bit OP. For a caster you need 16% chance to hit to be capped and you will still -always- have 1% miss chance. Gogo Blizzard, give casters 100% hit chance! :p
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:45 pm
Kiloran Zerotica Kiloran balancing skills for both pvp and pve at the same time aren't more difficult than just balancing for pvp. balance around pvp, then build boss fights around the skills that are there in pvp... If I wanted to play a game like that, I would be playing Guild Wars. um, no? haven't you noticed how the boss fights work, and how pvp works? that's exactly how you're supposed to do it, and that's how blizz does it. Blizzard doesn't "build boss fights" based off PvP skills. For WoW, PvE is always established first, and then they begin the cycle of balancing each class for PvP, while continuing to maintain their effectiveness in PvE.
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Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:03 pm
Bacchant Zerotica I would say hunters in general have a harder time hitting the top of the damage meters in a PvE setting (mainly raids) compared to other classes. Our hunters are always top DPS on raids, most of the time at least anyway. So Im thinking if your hunters arent topping meeters then either they're a bit crap, or they're sorely outgeared. Today I found out hunters with 8.6% hit never miss. They have 0 base miss chance... every single shot hits the target... come on, you have to admit thats a bit OP. For a caster you need 16% chance to hit to be capped and you will still -always- have 1% miss chance. Gogo Blizzard, give casters 100% hit chance! :p Same could be said about every other class on your server, maybe your other DPS classes are just lacking. Though who knows, I was just basing that off my experiences and opinions. Also, I would have to look into that whole perfect hit chance for Hunters, as I can't really comment on the validity of that statement atm, though I'm pretty sure hunters can still miss, because even if your hit rating is capped, I don't think it accounts for the defense of the specific mobs. Though even if it is true, I don't think they should give casters a perfect hit chance, that would definitely be setting them up for being "OP". How a Hunter uses hit chance compared to a casting class are two very different things.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:25 pm
The Mule Of Max chrono911 I agree. Playing a warlock, I am targeted 95% of the time first in my 5v5 group and on the battlefield because i am "op"
You dont see a lot of nerfing now adays though, just mostly buffing of a class. Example: Viper Sting being buffed? Why? What could possibly come from that except me having no mana in a couple seconds.
Playing a warlock, i dont think i am op because i know what my weaknesses are. Each dot is about 200 mana, so locks can only cast so many before they are oom and completely helpless sitting ducks. I have cloth armor. MS=lower health stones and health regen from anything at all. No damage from my weapon. My wand only does a good 250 per hit. My only way of escape (fear) has a diminishing return & a cast time which i can be killed casting easily if im low on health, etc etc.
I could go one for hours why I think hunters are unfare, and they are legit reasons too. Mail, autoshot hitting for 1200, aim shots for 4500, feign death, pet, viper sting, arcane shot and its buff remover, traps, BM wrath thing whatever, potential huge damage crits from weapon, the list goes on an on. So your class loses against hunters, and suddenly every single thing that a hunter can do is is overpowered? Are you always going to be this ******** retarded? You've been bitching about hunters for months. neutral Sure, your class isn't the best at taking hunters down, but I don't think that many hunters really autoshot for 1200 LOLALLTHETIME. Warlocks get stupidly good shadowbolt crits sometimes, s**t just happens. Maybe you should work on improving yourself and getting good at fighting hunters, rather than just bitching about something you can't change and being a little f*****t. ... All I can say to that is, STFU, GTFO, You aren't fit to be a GM like you posted in one of your threads, go die in a hole and never crawl out, you damn gome.
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:47 pm
Zerotica Same could be said about every other class on your server, maybe your other DPS classes are just lacking. Though who knows, I was just basing that off my experiences and opinions. Also, I would have to look into that whole perfect hit chance for Hunters, as I can't really comment on the validity of that statement atm, though I'm pretty sure hunters can still miss, because even if your hit rating is capped, I don't think it accounts for the defense of the specific mobs. Though even if it is true, I don't think they should give casters a perfect hit chance, that would definitely be setting them up for being "OP". How a Hunter uses hit chance compared to a casting class are two very different things. I was also basing my statement off of personal experience, but the gear/skill level of our players is pretty even. Also, in regards to hunter hit cap... [url=http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16943-hunter_lounge_-_theorycraft_within/]Elitist Jerks[/url] HIT & MISS All raid bosses are considered to be 3 levels higher than you in terms of calculating Hit, Crit, etc. Against a target 3 levels higher than you, there is an innate 9% Chance to Miss. This can be negated by Hit Rating or Weapon Skill. There is NOT 'always 1% Chance to miss that cannot be negated'. Or you could just look at a WWS log of a hit-capped hunter, such as this one: Hunter WWS log for BT raidI doubt its just a coincidence that he landed 1623 auto shots out of 1623 auto shots. And I wasnt serious about giving casters 100% hit, was just pointing out thats one of the reasons hunters are so imba.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:52 am
chrono911 Mr. Graves I started typing up a response, but realized it all sounded a lot like this. This is squarely directed at you, Zerotica and Chrono911. Please take the time to read it before saying how it was too long, but the ideas contained inside were stupid anyway. http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
Thanks for trying to insult me though, all you ended up doing was crashing my net with that link lawlzThanks for completely proving my point.
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:35 am
Mr. Graves chrono911 Mr. Graves I started typing up a response, but realized it all sounded a lot like this. This is squarely directed at you, Zerotica and Chrono911. Please take the time to read it before saying how it was too long, but the ideas contained inside were stupid anyway. http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/
Thanks for trying to insult me though, all you ended up doing was crashing my net with that link lawlzThanks for completely proving my point.
This maek'd me lawl. ^^
A lot of hunters I know, when geared decently (I consider decently to be anything from s1-s3 epics, low end raid epics like Kara and Gruuls) or geared roughly the same as the rest of their raid/party, are usually on the tops or close to the tops of the dmg meters.
In my guild, our two mages always thoroughly outdps us all. They're great, I love them. They're entirely too squishy, though, one glance from a mob and they're down faster than a thai hooker. I'd consider that to be a good balance.
Hunter dps is still pretty good, considering how many nerfs they've gotten. I can still play my hunter and be happy with my damage output, my survivability and my effectiveness in a group (although I'm still learning how to trap).
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