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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:54 pm
kingpinsqeezels That brings me to Noah, whose family supposedly repopulated this entire earth. I simply can't believe it was that simple. It could be said that the flood destroyed only the KNOWN world. This would basically be the Mid-East and Asia Minor...Possibly Africa, but I don't really know. Just something to think about. Well science knows, now, that at one point there was only about 33 breeding females left in the world. I presume this is the Noah event, where one last small group (really, 33 females to repopulate the world?) survived and went on to repopulate.
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:10 pm
Dis Domnu kingpinsqeezels That brings me to Noah, whose family supposedly repopulated this entire earth. I simply can't believe it was that simple. It could be said that the flood destroyed only the KNOWN world. This would basically be the Mid-East and Asia Minor...Possibly Africa, but I don't really know. Just something to think about. Well science knows, now, that at one point there was only about 33 breeding females left in the world. I presume this is the Noah event, where one last small group (really, 33 females to repopulate the world?) survived and went on to repopulate. how can science know details that specific?
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Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:19 pm
Shalom_Zeev Dis Domnu kingpinsqeezels That brings me to Noah, whose family supposedly repopulated this entire earth. I simply can't believe it was that simple. It could be said that the flood destroyed only the KNOWN world. This would basically be the Mid-East and Asia Minor...Possibly Africa, but I don't really know. Just something to think about. Well science knows, now, that at one point there was only about 33 breeding females left in the world. I presume this is the Noah event, where one last small group (really, 33 females to repopulate the world?) survived and went on to repopulate. how can science know details that specific? I don't remember the details. I'm presuming it's based on DNA found in ancient remnants. If I find where I read it again, I'll make sure to link it here.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:11 am
Probably it was a study of mitochondrial DNA, which is something that you inherit ONLY from your mother, not from your father. Assuming I'm remembering that old National Geographic article correctly: Mitochondrial dioxyribonucleic acid, or mDNA, mutates at a regular rate, so it's possible to learn from it how closely related one person or group is to another, by comparing their mDNA. This was how Oprah learned that she's from a tribe from northern Africa called the Kpelle, for example.
Guessing from the information that Dis Domnu has given, I would venture a supposition than these scientists have compared mDNA from all over the world's many populations, and have determined that there were thirty-three women who contributed their genes to the world's current population. Again, it's only a guess; don't flame me if this is incomplete or incorrect. I'm not a scientist, I'm a musician, and I reserve the right to make mistakes.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:22 am
That makes sense, and if at one point there only were that many people alive capable of breeding, then that shows even more that the world started out with only a few people
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:30 am
I think Divash is right. But I really don't remember enough of the details to be sure.
Zeev: I think the findings were from later in human history, not the very beginning. As I said, I take it to be the Noah event, where most of the human population was wiped out, and then repopulated by a small group. I know for sure that it happened after the advent of Sapiens, which means it came after the start of humanity.
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:17 am
Dis Domnu I think Divash is right. But I really don't remember enough of the details to be sure. Zeev: I think the findings were from later in human history, not the very beginning. As I said, I take it to be the Noah event, where most of the human population was wiped out, and then repopulated by a small group. I know for sure that it happened after the advent of Sapiens, which means it came after the start of humanity. so you believe that the world started out with more people but after the Noah incident there was a drastic decrease in people?
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Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:33 am
I think that by the time Sapiens evolved, there was more than two. I also believe that some later event, what I like calling the Noah Event, depopulated almost the entire planet.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:33 pm
Could I say that in Genisis Adam and Eve were the FIRST people, but no where does it say that they were ALONE.
Perhaps G-d created Adam and Eve, then created millions more of people spread around Africa and the Middle East. This is my belief, at least. So the human race would only have to survive one bottleneck (Noah) rather than two. And to answer the idea that Noah dumped the creatures all around, he wou't have to. Only the KNOWN world went underwater, So he'd only have to bring the creatures of the area around him.
I think that answers just about everything I feel qualified to answer.
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Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:01 pm
I heard once that interpreting the torah keeping the stories literally exact... you're only getting half the story.
Each one of the stories is a lesson to be interpreted, In the Torah, Midrash, Talmud, Zohar whatever sacred text of ancient events you come across, there is an underlying lesson in each one.
For example...
Last Torah portion was Ki Tisa, Ex 30:11 to 34:35
The infamous golden calf episode...
What I learned from that was... "The Israelites thought Moses died, and they all went into a mass hysteria, a great big panic attack from losing their leader. In the panic they went spiritually blind and took the idea of the golden calf from the followers, that traveled with them from Egypt. Then Moses reappeared, and a great anger from HASHEM followed, as people realized what they had done, in their panic, they learned a lesson and reaffirmed their beliefs."
And the lesson is, as Douglas Adams would say... "DON'T PANIC!"
Here's something in a more modern setting.
You wake up in the morning... it's 9:46 am... you needed to leave for work 10 minutes ago. In a panic you rush through your wardrobe, find whatever is clean enough to wear without sending you home, douse yourself in body spray because you don't have the time to shower...
now... where are your car keys... they're not on the table where you thought you left them... where are they... YOU MUST FIND THE CAR KEYS
after 20 minutes or so of ransacking your house... you find your car keys, right were you left them.... but now you're a half hour behind schedule.
I'm a Search and Rescue Technician and I volunteer to do disaster response. I understand how blind panic can jeopardize a rescue effort, may even cost a life, because someone did something foolish. You need to keep a cool head, if you don't keep a cool head, you're in trouble.
Now back to the golden calf.
Spiritual blindness can occur when you're panicking in an attempt to find HASHEM. That only in a calm, collective state, without pretense of any urgency can you truly commune with HASHEM.
I mean, how often do make a mistake or hear shocking news and call out "Jesus Christ!"
I know, panic makes you spiritually blind, sometimes you may just pray to a different god if you're not careful.
That's what I get out of it, what do you get?
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:16 am
What you said makes sense; it is not that I read the bible 100% literally, I just don't tend to make up stories completly different then what the bible actually says. But, I often believe different things to fill in different blanks in the bible, such as the reason that Moses can't talk well is because of an incident that happened between him and Hashem when he was a baby and that the serpent referred to in the beginning with Adam and Eve is actually a person's conciseness. I also believe that there are messages behind various stories.
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Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:11 pm
Shalom_Zeev I also believe that there are messages behind various stories. Thats why people spend the better part of their lifetime studing the Torah, and why shabbat services rotate around the bible, reading the same story on the same week of the same hebrew calender for the last 5700 or so years. Same reasons people buy books and movies on DVD, I mean I've read some books multiple times, mostly Sci-Fi stuff like Dune, and The Fellowship of the Rings. I don't know how many times I've seen, Dr. Strangelove, or Stalingrad, or Elfen Lied (yes I watch anime.) I mean, I know how the stories are going to end and everything. Even where the great lines are. But the reason people watch movies or read books again and again is usually because, they find a deep explanation of the character's motives and how the story line moves from very subtle details. If you don't think I'm right, watch Dr Strangelove and tell me what the underlying theme is.
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