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Wow. You have more balls than I. eek



I wouldn't think of it as trying to win in the traditional sense of the word. Even if you can make people reconsider the (oftentimes mis-) information they've been taught on the subject, that's all for the better. And who knows, maybe a few minds will be changed--and that's something.



Silence is the last thing that should be done; please don't let them intimidate you. Don't let them back you into a corner or gang up on you. Let them say their part, uninterrupted, and then ask for the same respect as you offer rebuttles.



As I'm not the most sound debater, I can't offer any super-good examples, but might I suggest debating as you would in ED? Avoid fallacies and the like. They might not all agree with you, but they can't say that you gave a shitty argument that falls apart when examined, you know?

1. Bring citations. Go into the Library of Logic, find the citations there, click the links, look them up. If there's a computer in the class, just print off the posts there and then ask the teacher or someone to check the source on the computer if need be. This will be useful for refuting the fact-based debate.

2. Call fallacy. If someone calls you a baby killer, or a murderer in response, just tell them "Ad hominem. Please do not attack me, but respond to my points" or something along those lines. If they start bringing in stuff like fetal movement or obvious emotional yankings, just tell them it's appeal to emotion (obviously if you have a counter-statement, use it as well).

3. THE SELF-DEFENSE ARGUMENT. Know when to use it. Use it. Love it. It can be applied almost anywhere outside of the fact-based portion. Here's a little guideline:

If your opposition states that the woman chose to have sex, ask this verbatim:

How is consent to sex, and as established consent to the possibility of pregnancy, irrevocable consent to carrying any resulting pregnancy to term?

They may or may not answer. If they don't answer, press them to answer. Just keep asking - and if you ask a lot, tell them how many times you've asked. If they answer with possibility, tell them it's established and that you need irrevocable consent to carry. Then skip the next little bit and explain self-defense.

The argument itself:

Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 3, the woman is granted the right to security of the person. By residing in the woman's body without her consent, the fetus violates this right. The lone precedent on this right in the case of abortion, R. v. Morgentaler, found that the fetus' right to life, if it indeed has any, does not override the woman's right to security of the person. Thus, by aborting, the woman is acting in defense of her rights and body by removing the offender and ending the violation. To force the woman to carry to term and give birth against her will is also thus a violation of her rights by proxy.

The UDHR is a UN document - it's easily found if you look it up.

Now there are infinite possibilities for this argument. I've covered the fetal right to life so that won't be a problem (you can just restate that point if need be).

You can also draw parallels to rape - if they try arguing against it, ask them if they are opposed to making it illegal for them to kill someone who is raping or is trying to rape them in self-defense. This is a rights parallel - if they say no, then call them on their inconsistency and ask why they don't afford the same self-defense right to a woman who is pregnant. This parallel can also be used if they try fetal personhood or rights because the rapist IS a person and DOES have rights - he's just violating yours, as is the fetus (though fetal rights are a grey area). This is probably the most powerful parallel in the argument and can be attributed so many different ways. You can also explain self-defense if they cry adoption and even draw out (it's a bit of a stretch though) that not only is the government violating the woman's rights by proxy, but so is the adoptive family as they're foregoing the many children in the system (keep a source handy for this!) for that woman's fetus.

Selfishness - well that begs the question "Why does selfish automatically equal bad?" You can also explain how everything everyone does is in some way selfish (though, this is coming from my slightly misanthropic views). If they call the aborting woman selfish then go for adoption, then ask how the adoptive family is not being selfish when they could adopt any other child in the system - call them on their double standard.

Lastly, be calm. Be civil. Be respectful. Be a model for pro-choice people around the world. If they start insulting you and screaming, you end up giving a better image if you remain calm and civil. Don't get too defensive - if you're being civil, they actually might not get defensive because you're being polite and respectful, but nevertheless, if they do, just keep your cool and don't break under it. Just remember - you have us to rant to. If need be, between classes you can find somewhere private and kick something or punch something. If you really feel like the insults are getting to you, remember this: They're not trying to insult you, they're trying to discredit you in their minds. They're outwardly insulting you just to give themselves a reason to not believe you. Just keep that in mind and things should be all right.

I hope you can understand the main argument, and I know I might not have been able to cover all the bases - but really debate is a lot of quick, on-the-spot thinking. Just listen to their points, ignore the insults (just set aside the words "ad hominem" when they insult you) and refute as necessary. With the argument I put up, however, you should be the one working them into a corner.

This.


Nothing is more frustrating to a child than treating a child like a child.

If they scream "baby killer, murderer" or do not let you complete a sentance. Stop. Stand there. And ask them "are you done yet?" "Would you let me complete my presentation before interrupting. I will answer questions." If they continually interrupt, turn to the teacher and ask him/her to get control over the class (e.g. make the teacher look bad through your civility because odds are the teacher wants you to fail this argument in a catholic school).


Don't try to answer every argument ever.


As people ask questions (ones you think will come up frequently), write them on the board and have the answer (in summation) on the board - so when they inevitably say "but you chose to have sex" for the 100th time, you don't have to repeat yourself but can just point to the board.

@ BlueRose Torn: I had a choice between three high Catholic schools. Two of them were all girls and the other was co-ed. I agree with a few might be changed, and the teacher has asked them to be respectful to everybody, but it still makes me nervous. I also agree with the fallacies thing, but unfortunately, most of them think the information they read is right. I'm not saying that they might not think more on the subject but there are some people...

@ Trite~Elegy: 16-18 year olds, all juniors plus we have had a pregnancy case int he class before us, but the baby was adopted. Nice of the teacher to save you. Most of my teachers are nice, and one of them is even Jewish... teaching at an all-girls Catholic school, lol. Just kidding, maybe about a fourth of the girls that go to the school aren't Catholic.

@ Lord Setar: I agree with pretty much all of what you will say. Though I doubt there will be screaming. Anyway, your points remind me of the fact that none of them have taken a government class so far (required in senior year) and that they won't know many of the laws. They will just know what they have heard on the news or from their "sources." Lots of explaining will have to be done. ((BTW, love the library of logic, but goes for the fact that I love this whole guild. I pretty much go and find quotes to print off every day.))

@ PhaedraMcSpiffy: I know, unfortunately, I usually talk loudly so I have to learn how to control that... I love it when teachers do that! Though my advisor (advisory is homeroom) never gives his opinion. Actually, he rarely ever tells us if an answer is right or wrong...

@ Talon-chan: I don't think we are going to use the board, but I am going to take notes. Thanks for the info.

@ 20 Shades of Crazy:I love to remind myself of that. Though the school really isn't against gays... Anyway, somehow I think they would come up with, "But the fetus was forced to be killed!" But still, more of an emotional issue. Yes I live in America, unfortunately, it's the midwest, bleh. Yay for extreme weather that makes it look like we have average temps!

Anyway, sorry for having to respond like that people, but I am so bad at quoting multiple people separately. Really great advice! I sometimes wish I could convince those girls to come (on gaia because they are those who have lives) and see this place. I think hey would get more info than they are now.

P.S.: There was no way in heck that I was going to watch "Jesus Camp" which showed in my school today. Not because it was about Christians, but because it was used for sociology. (Great course! I wish we had more than a semester of it though.) I get scared of those overly religious people sometimes.