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*sigh* Do you read what I post as a whole, or concentrate on singularly every paragraph I write as a new topic? Anyway, I never stated that a paladin CANNOT do the other two if you specialize at one. The fact that you specialize in one particular tree means you excel in that particular catagory, but that DOESN'T mean you CANNOT do the other two. And Paladins were never really suppose to be a true hybrid class based on their original design. They were merely suppose to be a mix between a priest and a warrior, nothing magical or hybrid about that, just inbetween them. Blizzard just made them hybrid class since TBC.

The fact is. Is that pretty much all classes are crappy without talents. That's why they are there in the first place. Paladins never needed a specific role in WoW. In fact, Pretty much ALL classes aren't needed, all you need is a healer and tank to make a group. the other three could be even more tanks and healers and the group will still do fine. Standardly at least.

And what are YOU as a Paladin are complaining about not being able to solo? You have warrior armor and health [[well, almost warrior health]]. You have short time buffs which are among the best buffs in the game. AND you can HEAAAAAAL. Let me say that again. HEEEEEEAAAAALLL. You have no right to complain about not being about to solo, otherwise you just purely suck as a paladin. No argument there.

Read a little bit on DnD if you wish to know a little bit more on class roles since WoW at the beginning was a basic rip off it. Seeing as you are spoiled on WoW, you probably don't know that a paladin was NEVER MEANT to be a tank or a healer. a paladin is suppose to SMITE UNDEAD AND EVIL and be an arbiter of good and holiness. That's always been there role in the fantasy realm, nothing more. So singling out Paladin as a 'crappy' class as you say it was never Blizzard's fault, it's just the way it is.




Oh, so based on your logic, a person which high bandage skill can be a healer. After all they do have the ability to heal. Oh, so let a rogue with 375 First aid be the healer. Don't be stupid. JUST because a class can heal, doesn't mean they are meant to be the main healer. Did you know that back then when people weren't so whiny about their classes sucking, it was practically UNHEARD of for a Paladin to be healing. But as more people began to join WoW, more people were QQing about their classes unable to heal as well as a priest. Boo-hoo, those people need a slap.

And your statements only state that JUST BECAUSE you have a couple of healing spells, you should be just as good as a class that was MEANT to be a healer. No, Paladin was never meant to be the main healer, Never was, and never should be. Fluff wise in DnD, Paladin use their holy powers to bring down the undead, not to act as a cleric, else they might as well BE a cleric. Sure, they can use their holy power to heal a little bit, big deal. In fact, by rules of DnD, those paladins can use those healing powers to damage undead, therefore only boosting their suppose smite undead abilities. But of course since TBC, the concept of smiting undead didn't go well because Paladins couldn't use their fear undead or excorism spell on undead players, which killed alot of fluff.

Now the druid is a bit of a different story. Fluff-wise DnD Druids are one with Nature, and the concept of nature was to always grow and nurture animals, plants and all living things. They were always thought so, thats why their healing abilities always excelled more than other classes that normally don't heal. Don't complain that a Druid has more healing abilities than you as a paladin because they were simply meant to do so.



So whats your point? Then Tank to do your DPS. Stop your belly-aching just because if you were a filler of a slot, you cannot do good damage. SO WHAT?! You can do so much more while doing some decent damage. I assume as a DPS paladin in a party you NEVER use things that benefit the party more than damage. And I'm SURE that all the buffs you put on the party isn't as important as doing good damage. Bah! Go use Seal of Light/Wisdom on someone if you want to be a big help, But I'm SURE that you already use abilities like those to help the party. /sarcasm

Blizzard always favored the enemies. In all their games it was that way. And if you EVER paid attention to the patches, you see that paladins got those big buffs on the patches most AROUND THE TIME OF TBC. Best quit acting like Blizzard doesn't play a game of favorites. because I can shot you down faster than an undead player can use will of forsaken. Har har.



Do you ever pay attention to when Blizzard makes a class? Do you even know the concepts of the classes in the world of Fantasy? I doubt it. A Non-Holy paladin gets, throughtout all their leveling... oh... 2 whole healing spells. I don't count Lay on Hands because it isn't standardly used. And if you rely on Lay on Hands, there is something wrong with you. Oh, look! A Paladin is a more melee-oriented class than a spell-caster class! Let's look at all the other hybrids, shall we?

Now lets compare that two to a non-resto druid. They get... 4 1/2. Tranquility is 1/2 because it's not a normal standard but it is used more frequently than Lay on Hands. Even WITHOUT talents a Druid has more healing versatility than a paladin. Look! A druid isn't as melee-oriented as a paladin! Well doesn't that just beat all.

Okay, lets move on to a shaman. Let's see, a non-resto shaman has... 3 1/2 healing spells! Healing Stream totem is a total joke, so I could that as 1/2 at best. Oh look! Shaman being more spell-caster than melee, that OBVIOUSLY means that they shouldn't have more healing abilities than a paladin. /sarcasm

Throughout the history of WoW, and Fantasy in general. A Paladin was NEVER MEANT to do the healing. They just have certain aspects of healing that boost their 'uniqueness' though in reality it's almost like a fighter and a cleric had sex and paladin was the spawn with its own unique features. So be grateful you can Heal so well in WoW compared to other things of fantasy.



Of course, Healers only need +healing, Mp5, and Int. Ever since TBC, thats all they focused on. You're only agreeing with me. Unfortunately, A Holy paladin still needs spell crit else Divine Illumination as a talent is wasted. Regardless of being nerfed, 60% out of 840 mana is still a 504 mana refund. Oh s**t! With Talents alot + base spell crit, you SHOULD standardly have 16% Spell crit. If you add +1% spell crit on let's say 8 out of 14 parts of your gear, that's 24% Spell crit. Now obviously that addition 8% isn't going to save you thousands of points of mana. Even with the big nerf on Divine illumination. /sarcasm.

I suggest Spirit on a non-holy paladin purely for the fact that since you do NOT have improved healing talents, you have to rely on Mana returns and 5sr. in order to keep up your mana reserves. High Intellect will not spare you if you do not have the talents to keep up with the damage. I tell you, with as small a mana pool as a non-holy paladin will have, You need all the mana reserves you can get. And without talents to boost healing. 804 mana per cast is a BBBIIIIIIIIGGGGG subtraction on your pool. And it's hard enough to get proper Mp5 gear without REAL healers needing it first, so Spirit is a factor you have to consider, regardless of it being a bad stat.

Best not talk bad about my healing advice. Even retired, I guarantee my experience far exceeds yours.

tl;dr

Good lord, look up. Those are the points I made that flew right over your head, while you blab on about DnD. News flash: WoW has jackall to do with ******** DnD. Later at 10: No one gives a s**t about DnD.

Baseline paladin not being able to survive =/= me not being able to solo, tyvm. Look up 'Prot paly AoE grinding'.

Yes, patch 1.9 completely revamped paladins, as you're so fond of bringing up. You know why? Because back then, they were completely worthless. It was either that, or just delete the damn class. It didn't have a damn thing to do with them being brought to the Horde, it had everything to do with trying to give them a place in the game period. BTW - all classes have received revamps, so hm...

Since when does the number of healing spells matter? All that amounts to versatility in a party. A druid focuses on HoTs, a priest has group heals & protective buffs, the shaman is practically in the same boat as the paladin with two main heals & then buffs through totems. The paladin has their two main heals, two 'ohshit' heals, then our Blessings/Auras. If you think this says 'totally not a healing class', then you're being pretty damn selective.

Quit trying to be clever with me, with your bullshit 'go read about DnD & fantasy' & 'oh, so if you have 375 First Aid you can heal, amirite?' bullshit.

phffff. World of Warcraft is a basic rip off DnD. As are most fantasy games are. Actually, the origin of Fantasy started with J.R. Tolkien with the Lord of the Rings series, but DnD came soon afterwards. If one that plays DnD, plays WoW, you'll find so many similarities that it isn't even funny. Why is that? Because Fantasy games tend to revolve around a basic line. And DnD came waaaay before WoW did.

Overall, what are you complaining about? Stop QQing and defending paladin's points of not being able to survive when they were a class made to solo and you already seem to prove a point that paladins can survive based on your own experiences. [[Though it isn't clear evidence, and specious reasoning, but I'll let you slide on that.]]

Indeed, keep telling yourself that Blizzard doesn't make the Horde the better ones. And are you kidding about complete revamped classes? Rogues and Priest needed a total review since they didn't receive one until way before TBC. Adding Talents do not mean Revamped.

Number of Healing spells relates to Versatility. Think about it. Let's overview.

Priest- Standard heal, flash Heal, HoT, Group heal, two-person heal, special heal [[Prayer of mending]]

Druid- Standard heal, HoT, Healing HoT, Reverse Healing HoT, group heal.

Shaman- Standard Heal, Flash heal, Group Heal

Paladin- Standard Heal, Flash heal.

No Healing skill is the same, or at least they differ enough to be special in their own way, thus adding utility with each spell. if you think Shamans are in the same league with Paladins, You need to get your head examined because they are far from the same. Paladin was not made to heal as well as any other healing class, therefore there is no reason why they should heal as well as any other healing class. You should be grateful you have the ability to heal at all.

Bullshiting your own logic? That's rich. What was it you said?
First Aid is a healing skill right? Or is First Aid mainly using venom to dispel poisons. Pah! You'll understand much more if you broaden your fantasy knowledge. But it's clear to me, you have none.

Karn,

Priest PvP gear (I don't know jack donkey about PvE, I'm not going to pretend I do.) has almost as much armor as leather. And your defenses, and you think you should be godlike? Disc Healing Priests are fine.

Just because the basic concept of WoW's classes are taken from DnD doesn't mean that the classes in WoW have to be an exact replica of the DnD classes. And stuff.

I think the problem is people think that being a hybrid means you can do everything at any time. This isn't true. Being a hybrid means you can fill different roles with that character. A warrior can melee DPS and tank. However, a paladin can tank, melee dps (lol), and heal. A druid can melee DPS, tank, heal, and spell dps. Of course, paladins can't switch as well as druids can, but that's because druids are forced into speccing into the healing tree if they go feral. Look at the talents, they all buff the feral tree a lot, especially the lower tier ones.

That's what a hybrid is. Someone that can fill multiple roles, but not as well as the class that is designed to fill that role. Sure, the paladin trees have some crappy talents in them, but everyone's trees have crap in them.

Also, whoever said holy priest covers arena survivor is silly. Pain supression (LOL DISC TALENT) is the survival button for arena priests.