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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:07 pm
Kiloran Iolol REM Sleep It bothers me to see people in welfare epics The most retarded literate Warlock to date. You work for what, 10 minutes to get 500 honor in AV if you're lucky. Considering you have NO Q, let's see how long playstime it is to get to the cheapest peice of S1, which is around 10k being conservative. 20x20 = 400. 400/60 = 6.6 hours. You walk into Karazhan and kill Nightbane and get a new item. 15 minutes. .25 of an hour. But wait, you cry and say you didn't get that item? Okay. Another hour to down Moroes, if you're decent. Maybe another hour or two to down Maiden. 3 hours 15 minutes spent, half of that you'd spend to get some bracers. Not to mention, 6 badges. Along with the fact that you can progress further and get trash epics, go for the miniboss with random stats on an epic level, or do more bosses if your team is up to it. You still get epics faster than a BG. Epic Resillience items are required, because going into arena you need 300 resillience or you go spiraling down the suck hole. "Welfare Epics" refers most to arenas because you can play an hour a week on your ten games to get your points. Battlegrounds is a different story (even then, you don't even need skill, just time and effort. what makes raiding hard is organizing a group of 10 or 25 people who may kill the boss (if absolutely nobody screws up, and if they have the right gear and attunements anyway) and who will be competing with you for the loot which may or may not drop). So yes, in battlegrounds, you spend the same time and effort, but other than that you can get what you want. For arenas, they are handed to you. For raiding, you have to work and be good--all 10-25 of you. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Educate yourself before you try to spout information. The term welfare epics came from a blue post about getting Arena epics through BGs. So, it's really talking about BG epics like that other chick said.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:24 pm
The Mule Of Max Kiloran Iolol REM Sleep It bothers me to see people in welfare epics The most retarded literate Warlock to date. You work for what, 10 minutes to get 500 honor in AV if you're lucky. Considering you have NO Q, let's see how long playstime it is to get to the cheapest peice of S1, which is around 10k being conservative. 20x20 = 400. 400/60 = 6.6 hours. You walk into Karazhan and kill Nightbane and get a new item. 15 minutes. .25 of an hour. But wait, you cry and say you didn't get that item? Okay. Another hour to down Moroes, if you're decent. Maybe another hour or two to down Maiden. 3 hours 15 minutes spent, half of that you'd spend to get some bracers. Not to mention, 6 badges. Along with the fact that you can progress further and get trash epics, go for the miniboss with random stats on an epic level, or do more bosses if your team is up to it. You still get epics faster than a BG. Epic Resillience items are required, because going into arena you need 300 resillience or you go spiraling down the suck hole. "Welfare Epics" refers most to arenas because you can play an hour a week on your ten games to get your points. Battlegrounds is a different story (even then, you don't even need skill, just time and effort. what makes raiding hard is organizing a group of 10 or 25 people who may kill the boss (if absolutely nobody screws up, and if they have the right gear and attunements anyway) and who will be competing with you for the loot which may or may not drop). So yes, in battlegrounds, you spend the same time and effort, but other than that you can get what you want. For arenas, they are handed to you. For raiding, you have to work and be good--all 10-25 of you. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Educate yourself before you try to spout information. The term welfare epics came from a blue post about getting Arena epics through BGs. So, it's really talking about BG epics like that other chick said. so given that context, the s1 Arena epics can be earn via Arena OR BG, personally I think it is easier to get them via Arena (at least to some people if you happen to have a good 4 other player with you) but for me, I can't put that much dedication. I go to BG. The S1 Epics requires the following (this is for Gladiator hunter set 5 pieces) The following is from memory 50 AB Marks (2 pieces) + 26k honor (give or take) - Average game is 6 minute to 35 minutes) win or lose 30 WSG Marks + 14.5k Honor (average game from 10 minutes to 2 hours PER game) win or lose 70 AV marks (2 pieces) + 32k Honor (give or take) (average is 12 minutes to 1 hour) usually 20 minutes average win or lose. remember that winning gives x3 marks while losing only gain 1. now assuming Alliance win (which is rare sometimes because like you said... getting 10, 15, 40 to work together is hard) max is 150 loses or 50 win (in perfect game) not including all the honor grind you need to do. That is a lot of time invested just to get a full armor set. We are not even talking about weapons which requires 40 marks + 27k honor alone. (that is for the gladiator bow I want) How many arena runs does it take to get a full set? (someone educate me on this one) soooooo.. I am not so sure where the welfare part comes from in terms of working for your gear. to me, the term welfare = easy to earn or given for free (like welfare programs) but I tell ya. As a casual player it is taking me around 4 months and I still haven't gotten all the pieces yet WITH double honor bonus weekend.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:56 pm
Chibibar The Mule Of Max Kiloran Iolol REM Sleep It bothers me to see people in welfare epics The most retarded literate Warlock to date. You work for what, 10 minutes to get 500 honor in AV if you're lucky. Considering you have NO Q, let's see how long playstime it is to get to the cheapest peice of S1, which is around 10k being conservative. 20x20 = 400. 400/60 = 6.6 hours. You walk into Karazhan and kill Nightbane and get a new item. 15 minutes. .25 of an hour. But wait, you cry and say you didn't get that item? Okay. Another hour to down Moroes, if you're decent. Maybe another hour or two to down Maiden. 3 hours 15 minutes spent, half of that you'd spend to get some bracers. Not to mention, 6 badges. Along with the fact that you can progress further and get trash epics, go for the miniboss with random stats on an epic level, or do more bosses if your team is up to it. You still get epics faster than a BG. Epic Resillience items are required, because going into arena you need 300 resillience or you go spiraling down the suck hole. "Welfare Epics" refers most to arenas because you can play an hour a week on your ten games to get your points. Battlegrounds is a different story (even then, you don't even need skill, just time and effort. what makes raiding hard is organizing a group of 10 or 25 people who may kill the boss (if absolutely nobody screws up, and if they have the right gear and attunements anyway) and who will be competing with you for the loot which may or may not drop). So yes, in battlegrounds, you spend the same time and effort, but other than that you can get what you want. For arenas, they are handed to you. For raiding, you have to work and be good--all 10-25 of you. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Educate yourself before you try to spout information. The term welfare epics came from a blue post about getting Arena epics through BGs. So, it's really talking about BG epics like that other chick said. so given that context, the s1 Arena epics can be earn via Arena OR BG, personally I think it is easier to get them via Arena (at least to some people if you happen to have a good 4 other player with you) but for me, I can't put that much dedication. I go to BG. The S1 Epics requires the following (this is for Gladiator hunter set 5 pieces) The following is from memory 50 AB Marks (2 pieces) + 26k honor (give or take) - Average game is 6 minute to 35 minutes) win or lose 30 WSG Marks + 14.5k Honor (average game from 10 minutes to 2 hours PER game) win or lose 70 AV marks (2 pieces) + 32k Honor (give or take) (average is 12 minutes to 1 hour) usually 20 minutes average win or lose. remember that winning gives x3 marks while losing only gain 1. now assuming Alliance win (which is rare sometimes because like you said... getting 10, 15, 40 to work together is hard) max is 150 loses or 50 win (in perfect game) not including all the honor grind you need to do. That is a lot of time invested just to get a full armor set. We are not even talking about weapons which requires 40 marks + 27k honor alone. (that is for the gladiator bow I want) How many arena runs does it take to get a full set? (someone educate me on this one) soooooo.. I am not so sure where the welfare part comes from in terms of working for your gear. to me, the term welfare = easy to earn or given for free (like welfare programs) but I tell ya. As a casual player it is taking me around 4 months and I still haven't gotten all the pieces yet WITH double honor bonus weekend. Because in BGs, no matter how bad you are or how long it takes you, you'll still eventually get them.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:04 pm
My raiding gear is welfare epics because I fight scripted encounters for them, I'm horribly undergeared for the content I'm at, kekekeke
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:08 pm
The Mule Of Max Because in BGs, no matter how bad you are or how long it takes you, you'll still eventually get them. Isn't that same with Arena?? even if you lose you still get points don't you? (so other post have said. I personally haven't done arena mainly I don't have a dedicated group (well more like dedicated casual group with arena once every 2 weeks or something) edit: it looks like you DO get points per week from your ranking. So if you did poorly you can STILL get item even if your team sucks. (gain less point per week) and must participate 10 matches per week to be eligible for points.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:03 pm
Chibibar The Mule Of Max Because in BGs, no matter how bad you are or how long it takes you, you'll still eventually get them. Isn't that same with Arena?? even if you lose you still get points don't you? (so other post have said. I personally haven't done arena mainly I don't have a dedicated group (well more like dedicated casual group with arena once every 2 weeks or something) edit: it looks like you DO get points per week from your ranking. So if you did poorly you can STILL get item even if your team sucks. (gain less point per week) and must participate 10 matches per week to be eligible for points. Well, with arenas, if you lose all 10 of your matches that week, you'll go down into the 1400 bracket or whatever, and then it's pretty much not worth it, so you have to reform (yay costs money). Also, people don't want to do Arena with pugs, but in BGs, almost every game is a pug, and even if you lose you still get your marks, a nice chunk of honor, etc.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:06 pm
The Mule Of Max Chibibar The Mule Of Max Because in BGs, no matter how bad you are or how long it takes you, you'll still eventually get them. Isn't that same with Arena?? even if you lose you still get points don't you? (so other post have said. I personally haven't done arena mainly I don't have a dedicated group (well more like dedicated casual group with arena once every 2 weeks or something) edit: it looks like you DO get points per week from your ranking. So if you did poorly you can STILL get item even if your team sucks. (gain less point per week) and must participate 10 matches per week to be eligible for points. Well, with arenas, if you lose all 10 of your matches that week, you'll go down into the 1400 bracket or whatever, and then it's pretty much not worth it, so you have to reform (yay costs money). Also, people don't want to do Arena with pugs, but in BGs, almost every game is a pug, and even if you lose you still get your marks, a nice chunk of honor, etc. don't know of this "nice chunk of honor" you speak of when you lose wink in WSG if you lose, you could walk away with maybe 20-50 honor, AB as low as 50 honor once I walk away with only 100 with a lose sad AV... the group decides to turtle.. we lost. I walk away with 43 honor... (max around 500+ honor) that is just sad. considering some of these cost like a bow cost 27k that is a LONG way to get it. Arena would be faster if you have dependable groups. edit: basically what I am saying is that it is not as "welfare" as you make it out to be because to most players it take a lot of work and a lot of sink time to get what they want. of course I notice that some groups have what BG call "premades" which are premade groups and join BG (WSG, AB and EoTS) which is nice cause they work in group, but I also notice that these group ALSO do Arena (best of both worlds) so they are the exception... Generally people have to do a lot of bgs to get something take a bow for example s1 bow cost 40 AV + 27k honor s1 Bow for arena cost 3750 so... average honor for AV is 500 honor (none double honor weekend). that is 54 straight wins so you get the mark early (x3 per win) and 54 straight wins with 40 man BG. just to get 1 bow. Now what if you lose? what if you get only 100 honor per lost? that is 270 loses..... each battle again last from 12 minutes (fastest I have been on) to 1 hour. so lets say average 30 minutes. 54 battle * 30 minutes = 27 hours give or take (that is straight playing time not including breaks, food, or sleep) or the fastest 54*12 = 11 hours (10.8 I round up) half days of work. so an average looking around 100 battles (give or take) to get 1 bow how many arena battle wins do you need to earn 3750 points? (I don't know like I said. so educate me on that part.)
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:19 pm
seperate post: the only reason I'm stating this cause I'm one of those semi-casual player who is trying to get my s1 gear via BG. Trust me.. it is a long long road. So far I got 4 pieces and NOT a weapon yet sad that is another 2 day event to do (waiting for next AV event) cause I can't BG every day only on weekends and I usually BG on double honor weekend to gain bonus honor smile
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:07 pm
...This week is AV week? o_o I thought it was EotS.
And for those Pvpers that don't get why some people are getting mad with the 'welfare' thing:
The biggest reason PvE peeps QQ for s1 gear is because the epics are always there. You don't have to run kara/ssc/whatever ten times to hope you get the item. Or worry about others taking it from you for ninjaing or them having a higher DKP.
I believe this...
PvE peeps though get to really experience the game though. The quests, the content, and the fights are much more enjoyable then getting cyclone'd in the a** and chained feared over and over and over... You can feel it. A lot of people Pre-bc felt a bigger sense of accomplishment from downing Nef/C'thun/Kel then getting to rank 14. True story. ( I don't mean to say everyone feels this way. Some people on my server do though and in my former guild. )
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:42 pm
REM Sleep Bacchant REM Sleep It bothers me to see people in welfare epics What are these "welfare epics" you speak of? Honor gear? PVP gear in general? How is that welfare? It takes a lot of freaking time to farm honor and/or arena points. Or do you somehow think that people who get PVP gear have it handed out to them for no effort at all? I guess thinking people here would understand the term welfare epics was asking too much Welfare epics S1 arena gear, people who cant spend the time in the arena to get a decent raiting to get S2 and S3, so they farm BG. I remember when having S1 meant something and now I see ******** warlocks running around with all S1 and the bringer of death. Warriors with that axe from the ring of blood and hunters who act even more cocky. If the extent of your pvp is farming BG for honor and marks just so you can have S1 till the next expansion. its an epic fail Most of the people (at least the people I know) who farm S1 gear do it because they only did pve before want to start pvping, or they just dinged 70 and it SUCKS BALLS entering arenas vs teams who are in S2 + gear when you're wearing blues. They simply outgear you. What would you suggest they do? Suck it up untill they very slowly gather enough arena points on a laughable rating? Otherwise, the only reason I could imagine anyone farming ONLY bgs for gear is becaue they dont have the time to put into the game to do anything else. Either way, farming BG's does take up time. S1 isnt nearly as good as S2/S3 stuff anyway, so who cares if other people use it?
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:56 am
Arreat ...This week is AV week? o_o I thought it was EotS. And for those Pvpers that don't get why some people are getting mad with the 'welfare' thing: The biggest reason PvE peeps QQ for s1 gear is because the epics are always there. You don't have to run kara/ssc/whatever ten times to hope you get the item. Or worry about others taking it from you for ninjaing or them having a higher DKP. I believe this... PvE peeps though get to really experience the game though. The quests, the content, and the fights are much more enjoyable then getting cyclone'd in the a** and chained feared over and over and over... You can feel it. A lot of people Pre-bc felt a bigger sense of accomplishment from downing Nef/C'thun/Kel then getting to rank 14. True story. ( I don't mean to say everyone feels this way. Some people on my server do though and in my former guild. ) I don't think the main argument got to do with PvP vs PvE. I believe "Mule to Max" is arguing regarding Arena PvP vs BG PvP for the same S1 gear. Before you can only get S1 gear via Arena PvP but now you can get them via BGs also. (S2 and S3 only available via Arena still) hence he calls all s1 gear = welfare epic. (that is what I think)
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