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God and the World of Darkness

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Carnamagos
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:55 pm


God in the World of Darkness is the subject of much theological and philosophical debate. According to the bulk of Cainite lore, God is the reason for the existance of all Cainites as he cursed their namesake. Some Clans and Bloodlines (most notably the Followers of Set) claim their creation to be independent of an omnipotent, omnipresent being, but this may have more to do with vanity than correct explanation. Some Vampires argue that the weakness of Vampires to holy relics and symbols is further evidence of God's existence.

The Garou do not know if God exists and generally they could not care less. While many Garou may have been raised in the traditions that worship God, the Garou deal with spirits and powerful beings on a regular basis. Some Garou reason that if there was a single "supreme being", they would be aware of it. As it is, the general opinion of the Garou is that the notion of "God" is not worth considering.

Mages are a mixed lot on God, as they are on everything else. The Celestial Choir is founded on the idea that there is a God and that the path to Ascension leads to God. Other Traditions have entertained the Gnostic idea that the acquisition of wisdom leads to the understanding of God. A handful of Hermetics throughout history have proposed that the Avatar is a fragment of God. Through Ascension, the Awakened become Godlike or one with God.

The Kuei-jin have the most interesting opinion on God. They know for a fact that the August Personage of Jade is the King of Heaven, the supreme being. They believe in a "God", but God is not friendly, or nice, or in many cases, benevolent.

Ironically, many Wraiths do not believe in a God and small wonder that they don't. The afterlife is nothing like what they were promised. The Dark Kingdoms are closer to some twisted version of Purgatory than Heaven or even Hell. The closest thing to Heaven or Hell that exists to Wraiths is the Far Shores, ruled by the entities known as the Shining Ones.

The presence of God is confirmed by Demon, and surprisingly, they claim that the interpretation of history as transmitted by a certain Semetic tribe is fairly accurate if somewhat biased and chronologically open to misinterpretation. Demons also claim that God is very real, many of which have actually spoken to God, but they don't know what God is up to now. Given the state of the world, many Demons question whether God is still minding the proverbial store after all these years.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:45 pm


It often seemed to me that there are two prevailing cosmologies in the World of Darkness: The theistic cosmology presented in Vampire and Demon, and the animistic cosmology of Mage and Werewolf.

Neither view, however, necessarily dispenses with the other. Perhaps the most interesting game-related conversations I've had with my friends/players/troupe deal with how the two cosmologies might actually fit into some sort of whole. The Demon sourcebooks, being some of the last OWoD books to be released, offered some tantalizing hints as to how it all might be connected...

Redford Blade
Crew


NuclearOops

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:24 pm


SPOILER ALERT
Only highlight the below if you really wanna know how it ends.

While the Gehenna, Apocalypse, and Ascension books all offer alternate ending the fourth book of the series "Time of Judgement" gives vague but more definate endings to the Middle Kingdom, Hunter, Demon, and Fae. In traditional White Wolf attitude nothing is completely answered and no two settings truly connects 100% the closest 3 are Mage, Demon, and Hunter.

Demons, having long thought that God and his Angels were long gone begin to get too unruly and the Earthbound begin to make major moves on the world. In a last attempt to stop them Lucifer reveals himself over downtown Los Angeles. He rallies his faithful for a final battle against the Earthbound. Somewhere at this time the host may return. This is when a few things are revealed:

The Heralds are voices of Angels attempting to save humanity from the supernatural and itself.

Mages Avatars are shards of a destroyed Elohim discarded during the war.


I hope this explains nothing.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:41 pm


NuclearOops
SPOILER ALERT

I hope this explains nothing.


That's pretty much what I put together as well, but the way you wrote it suggests (to me, at least) that you have more concrete information. I've been flipping back through ToJ, but haven't seen anything that openly posits either of those. I just put it together from the fiction bits, and the Demon paperback novels. Did I miss something?

Redford Blade
Crew


NuclearOops

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:03 am


Redford Blade
NuclearOops
SPOILER ALERT

I hope this explains nothing.


That's pretty much what I put together as well, but the way you wrote it suggests (to me, at least) that you have more concrete information. I've been flipping back through ToJ, but haven't seen anything that openly posits either of those. I just put it together from the fiction bits, and the Demon paperback novels. Did I miss something?


There's a book, it's the Demon equivalent of the printed Book of Nod, hold on I'll have a link before I hit the submit button...

Ah! Here we are, Days of Fire. It's the Demons account of the End of the World.

Again though it answers nothing. And the heralds part I more deduced from reading the Storytellers handbook for Hunter (HtR) it's useful for doing a Hunter game right. It'll give your players exactly the wrong idea.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:51 pm


Ah yes, Dies Ignis. I've got most of the Demon sourcebooks, so I see what you mean. If I can get more people for the Demon RP, I might even have a use for them...

Redford Blade
Crew

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