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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:02 am
is anyone else tired of people ranting about how racist Transformers was for killing off Jazz
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:36 am
I am tired of people pulling the race card everywhere possible. TFs are no different.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:32 am
I thought Jazz was coming back, just in his original G1 form.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:23 pm
That's only what the toy say. He's staying dead in the moives. Or at least as far as I know.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:34 pm
Oh. Aww, poor Jazz. But, you have to make sacrifices. Remember when they killed Optimus? Everyone was upset about that too. Then again in that movie they killed off a lot of main characters, Ironhide, ratchet..I can't remember any others.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:02 pm
I'm not mad that they offed Jazz, who, by merit of his transformation/break dancing skills and "word up" vocabulary, was the token black guy. In fact, it gives me a lot of material to work with for comics, and far be it from me to look a gift horse in the mouth.
I take issue with the fact that people are mad because of the race issue, and not the fact that if was Jazz who got torn in half. Jazz is a favorite of mine, but he was so poorly fleshed out (so to speak) that it feels like they just killed him because the writers all got wasted on Jaeger bombs one night and said "oh hey let's just have this one torn in half because it's an action movie and at least one protagonist has to die" and they thought it was the raddest idea ever.
Simply put, there was no real reason for him to die. Anybody new to the series doesn't know if it's in his nature to start sass-mouthing creatures three times his size or whatever. He just happened to be standing there, so off he went. Shortpacked! does a better job of illustrating it than I do.
So I'm not that worked up over the fact that Jazz fulfilled the apparent racial destiny of all token black guys in films, and was the first one in line at the chopping block. It's a silly notion to pull the race card in something as inconsequential as a Hollywood action movie when there's a heck of a lot more serious things for me to get huffy over.
But man, at least Optimus Prime got some form of characterization in the old movie before they went and killed him. Jazz just flashed some gang signs and there was probably a cut scene of Optimus chiding him for pulling into the drive-thru at the KFC before he was torn in half by Megatron.
Actually, I'm kind of mad they didn't kill off Optimus. It would have been a better device in the sequels, to see how the Autobots cope in the face of a new threat without their leader.
Wait, never mind. That's probably too involved for whoever was writing the scripts, anyway.
(This post turned out a lot longer than I intended. Oh well.)
heart , Tampons.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:50 am
Transformers have races? I thought they only had factions. confused
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 7:44 am
I would disagree about there being no reasoning in Jazz's demise. Being the second in command, it is appropriate that Jazz led in Optimus' absence. Then, in the fight, Megatron went for the commanding officer first. It is simple battle tactics. By ripping him in half, it was not a race thing for the 'token black character' as much as a battle decision combined with showing how malicious Megs was. No mercy, and a vicious kill.
What I do hate is how Jazz was portrayed in the few lines he had. The breakdancing, the poor lines, all of it just adds up to both cliche and wrong. Jazz was always a consummate spy, blending into the environment and seamlessly meshing with local culture. Perhaps they could have kept his character intact with other references than bad 80's hip-hop.
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Eloquent Conversationalist
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Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:36 am
Magni Prime I would disagree about there being no reasoning in Jazz's demise. Being the second in command, it is appropriate that Jazz led in Optimus' absence. Then, in the fight, Megatron went for the commanding officer first. It is simple battle tactics. By ripping him in half, it was not a race thing for the 'token black character' as much as a battle decision combined with showing how malicious Megs was. No mercy, and a vicious kill. What I do hate is how Jazz was portrayed in the few lines he had. The breakdancing, the poor lines, all of it just adds up to both cliche and wrong. Jazz was always a consummate spy, blending into the environment and seamlessly meshing with local culture. Perhaps they could have kept his character intact with other references than bad 80's hip-hop. I'm saying that there was reason in Jazz's demise for us, but that's because we had pre-existing knowledge of his character. Everyone who I went with was unfamiliar with the fandom, so their reactions were "wait, did the black guy just die first again?" In other words, the writers flipped the newbies the bird and they got no character to go with their drawing-and-quartering.
I agree with you on the portrayal of Jazz, though. If people thought the fact that they offed him was racist, how about how he was depicted from his introduction? neutral
heart , Tampons.
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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:44 pm
Totally Tampons! Magni Prime I would disagree about there being no reasoning in Jazz's demise. Being the second in command, it is appropriate that Jazz led in Optimus' absence. Then, in the fight, Megatron went for the commanding officer first. It is simple battle tactics. By ripping him in half, it was not a race thing for the 'token black character' as much as a battle decision combined with showing how malicious Megs was. No mercy, and a vicious kill. What I do hate is how Jazz was portrayed in the few lines he had. The breakdancing, the poor lines, all of it just adds up to both cliche and wrong. Jazz was always a consummate spy, blending into the environment and seamlessly meshing with local culture. Perhaps they could have kept his character intact with other references than bad 80's hip-hop. I'm saying that there was reason in Jazz's demise for us, but that's because we had pre-existing knowledge of his character. Everyone who I went with was unfamiliar with the fandom, so their reactions were "wait, did the black guy just die first again?" In other words, the writers flipped the newbies the bird and they got no character to go with their drawing-and-quartering.
I agree with you on the portrayal of Jazz, though. If people thought the fact that they offed him was racist, how about how he was depicted from his introduction? neutral
heart , Tampons.Actually Tampons, after watching the movie and actually listening to Jazz's 2 (actually 9) lines, you can tell one thing about him: he cares deeply for the safety for the other 'Bots. It's very quick, and you have to catch it just right, but when Megatron appears, Ratchet tells everyone to run for it. For maybe half a second, you see Jazz turned around about to run. Then he turns around and pulls a gun on Megatron. More than likely, I bet he knew he was going to die. Also, note how he was taunting Megatron right before he got ripped in half. Whether he meant to or not, he was buying everyone else time. It's very subtle, and you will miss it on the first few watch-throughs, but his character's there. Just a single 3 line exchange could've established this noble part of Jazz. Sure, it would've been pretty cheap, but it would've put it out there and made his death more reasonable. Although all things considered, my mom managed to catch his death and go "Awww..." when he got killed. And yes, the writers did decide to kill a character besides Prime or BB. They figured Jazz was the best bet. Hope I didn't ruin your comic ideas Tampons!
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Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:15 pm
Eh, the old line comes to mind "heroic non sense" lol
But yes we ranted about his death and it's time to move on. I'm looking forward to the new movie and if Jazz comes back it would be an awesome bonus. If he doesn't, there needs to be deaths and yes it was a pathetic way to die but it proves Meg's power. And I think Bay was running out of screen time so they have to make deaths swift and clean 3nodding
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:16 am
Totally Tampons! I'm not mad that they offed Jazz, who, by merit of his transformation/break dancing skills and "word up" vocabulary, was the token black guy. In fact, it gives me a lot of material to work with for comics, and far be it from me to look a gift horse in the mouth.
I take issue with the fact that people are mad because of the race issue, and not the fact that if was Jazz who got torn in half. Jazz is a favorite of mine, but he was so poorly fleshed out (so to speak) that it feels like they just killed him because the writers all got wasted on Jaeger bombs one night and said "oh hey let's just have this one torn in half because it's an action movie and at least one protagonist has to die" and they thought it was the raddest idea ever.
Simply put, there was no real reason for him to die. Anybody new to the series doesn't know if it's in his nature to start sass-mouthing creatures three times his size or whatever. He just happened to be standing there, so off he went. Shortpacked! does a better job of illustrating it than I do.
So I'm not that worked up over the fact that Jazz fulfilled the apparent racial destiny of all token black guys in films, and was the first one in line at the chopping block. It's a silly notion to pull the race card in something as inconsequential as a Hollywood action movie when there's a heck of a lot more serious things for me to get huffy over.
But man, at least Optimus Prime got some form of characterization in the old movie before they went and killed him. Jazz just flashed some gang signs and there was probably a cut scene of Optimus chiding him for pulling into the drive-thru at the KFC before he was torn in half by Megatron.
Actually, I'm kind of mad they didn't kill off Optimus. It would have been a better device in the sequels, to see how the Autobots cope in the face of a new threat without their leader.
Wait, never mind. That's probably too involved for whoever was writing the scripts, anyway.
(This post turned out a lot longer than I intended. Oh well.)
heart , Tampons. OMG!! That shortpacked comic was hilarious.
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