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bizzybee723

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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:19 am

Hello Everyone. I could inlist your help...there is a topic in the morality and religions forum called "What do you think about Latter Day Saints," and a topic came up that I am having trouble answering and researching as well. So I thought I would bring you guys the question so that we could get more minds working it. I know there are many people who know more about this subject than I do.

Here is the link if you think you might be able to help this discussion.
Link

The question was asked why in the beginning of the restoration the church "believed" all people of "colored" skin could not reach heaven. The person said that they thought it was because of the curse of Cain and of the Nephites. ANother person said the church only changed it's stand point because of the Civil RIghts Movement.

I am having a hard time finding documention and other things to help explain that time period in our church history.

If anyone can help me better understand this...and explain our position and history that would be great.

Thanks.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:40 am

They could always join the church and be baptised, first of all we were always anti slavery even before the civil war. secondly we dont recieve answers unless we ask, and by happenstance we asked god about the mark of cain and if it is to be lifted at the same time. In the past it was just asumed ( due to the faulty of man) and the isssue wasnt even an issue until the civil right movment. Just remember we dont recieve answers unless we ask.

screwdup

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Glimare

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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:12 pm

Oiyoi.... this is why most of us avoid that area now. I'm really getting sick of defending anything.

The main thing is readiness. Milk before meat kind of thing. As a society, we weren't ready for them to have the priesthood until much later. The civil rights movement was a sign that we were finally getting ready for it. Its the same as why we don't know anything about our heavenly mother. As a people, we aren't ready about it. Imagin what the world would have done if we suddenly started proclaiming to high heaven that there's a heavenly mother and she's just as important as our heavenly father? Though we don't really teach about her in church, she still exists and is mentioned in songs(Hymn 289[I think] " Oh my father", third adn fourth verses). Just because we know that they can eventually learn about it, doesn't mean it's time.

So there's the answer. We just weren't ready. But if you look at church history a bit, we were some of the first people to push forward in civil rights. Relief society and young womens brought the women's rights about, adn the fact that a faction in misouri was very much agaisnt slavery helped bring about more people to the church than you think. Moving to the west also helped. The main civil rights movement had to be done in a place that was very predjudice. From what I've been told, in the west, the mindset was so different back then, it's very much like it is today. Milk before meat, and babysteps before leaps.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:50 pm

Thank you both for clarifying this topic for me. I do not know much about our church history and because of that I had a hard time understanding why myself. I have learned something from you guys and I thank you.

I just thought that at the time the world/Americas where not ready for such a change.

bizzybee723

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Shinikaze

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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:38 pm

I did a little research. Wikipedia is a pretty reliable source. A Governor gave a speech in a Legislature meeting in 1852 and started refering to the Bible. The Lord put a mark upon Cain (the dark skin of African Americans) and the Lord also told Cain that neither he nor his seed will receive the blessing of the preisthood until all of Michael's (Abel's son) seed had received it. This alone would prevent African Americans from entering into the Celestial Kingdom (whether the arguement takes the different kingdoms into consideration I don't know). Then, after however many years are between the cursing of Cain and 1978, when President Spencer W. Kimball received the revelation that brought about Official Declaration 2. That declaration, if you don't remember, gave all worthy male members of the church the ability to be ordained to the priesthood without regard to race or color. Whether the church was "pressed" into making this decision because of the Civil Rights Movement is farfetched. The revelation was of course brought on by fervent prayers from President Kimball that were in turn inspired by members of the church bringing the topic of the restriction to his attention.

I hope this helps in your discussion.

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:31 pm

It's like anyother part of our religion, it's not based on why a thing is, but that it just is.
The church is a living breathing entity with living revelation. A thing happens because God says it's time to happen weather the world is ready for it or not.
It's like saying "I won't belive unless I see the gold plates for myself."
And yet we don't need to see them to belive because of what is in our hearts. We know it's simply true, we don't need "proof". When the feelings in our hearts is all the proff we need.

Cain slew Able, and upon him came a mark and a curse. So that his children would not intermingle with the other sons and daughters of Adam.
The Lamanites became wicked and upon them came a mark. So that their children would not intermingle with the sons and daughters of the Nephites.

It has taken many generations for these people to prove themselves able to be righteous. and when they did, the curse was removed from them, but not the mark. For whatever reason, DNA? who knows how that works.

All that matters is that President Kimball recived a revelation from God stating that All of Gods Children were ready to recive that which would allow them entrance into his presence.
It just so happens that the timing of it came when the the world was experienceing civil rights.
In Gods own time, which is not that of man, does his work proceed.

The probelm is we are Telestial Beings trying to understand Celestial concepts. Telestial Beings need tangible proof and reasons why.
But Celestial beings simply accept what God asks and says with out the need for Proof and explinations.

I'm not saying don't question, I'm just saying ask God your questions not man.

Gwyndara

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paladin140
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:48 pm

I do not go into threads discussing our religion outside the guild, but I am willing to answer any sincere questions that anyone within that forum may have.

Long story short, it gets ugly quickly. I spend all of my time on gaia, in this guild.

Welcome to Gaia! ::

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