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Cells and It's Scientific Theory

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Fourth_Fret

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:59 pm


Now guys, refer to tha fact that I'm only 15.
So,
I found out that one of the three cell theories is that all cells came from other cells.
Well, where did the veeeeeerrrryyyyy first cell come from?
Like everything, I KNOW for a fact that something started.
Also, doesn't it make you think that they know exactly what to do and where and when?
eek eek eek eek eek eek eek eek
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:40 pm


SchoolBoyKarl
Now guys, refer to tha fact that I'm only 15.
So,
I found out that one of the three cell theories is that all cells came from other cells.
Well, where did the veeeeeerrrryyyyy first cell come from?
Like everything, I KNOW for a fact that something started.
Also, doesn't it make you think that they know exactly what to do and where and when?
eek eek eek eek eek eek eek eek


Strangely enough, your cells are essentially colonies of independant organisms that became so specialised they couldn't live without one another.

The problem is if you go back far enough in time, you start encountering phenomena like plasmids and whatnot, and the trunk of the tree of life becomes a jumbled mess of interacting organic molecules. How these molecules specifically interacted and developed is a question for abiogenesis, and although we learn new stuff everyday, much of it is still a mystery. Here's to biologists.

And there's no question too basic so don't be afraid to ask. The only thing that irks us is people who wildly assert random falsehoods. Curiosity, on the otherhand, is always welcomed.

Morberticus


Fourth_Fret

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:30 am


Morberticus
SchoolBoyKarl
Now guys, refer to tha fact that I'm only 15.
So,
I found out that one of the three cell theories is that all cells came from other cells.
Well, where did the veeeeeerrrryyyyy first cell come from?
Like everything, I KNOW for a fact that something started.
Also, doesn't it make you think that they know exactly what to do and where and when?
eek eek eek eek eek eek eek eek


Strangely enough, your cells are essentially colonies of independant organisms that became so specialised they couldn't live without one another.

The problem is if you go back far enough in time, you start encountering phenomena like plasmids and whatnot, and the trunk of the tree of life becomes a jumbled mess of interacting organic molecules. How these molecules specifically interacted and developed is a question for abiogenesis, and although we learn new stuff everyday, much of it is still a mystery. Here's to biologists.

And there's no question too basic so don't be afraid to ask. The only thing that irks us is people who wildly assert random falsehoods. Curiosity, on the otherhand, is always welcomed.





umm what is the trunk of the tree of life? eek
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:36 am


We represent all lifeforms evolutionarily as parts of a big "tree of life," where currently living things are like the tips of twigs, and we can trace back their ancestry like tracing back along those twigs to branches. A tree is a rather pertinent analogy because just as branches have lots of twigs coming off of them, so do past life forms often have multiple new life forms evolving from them.
So we are on one twig, and if you trace back, the twig we're on and the twig that, say, chimpanzees are on, join together, representing the period when we still had common ancestors. Then going further back brings us another joining, our common ancestors with, say, gorillas, and then monkeys, and then mammals in general, etc.

Since all of the branches must come off of a central trunk, we say that, metaphorically, the beings of this trunk must be the ancestors of all living organisms. As far as we can tell, they were probably very simple, single-celled organisms, things that we would barely consider alive by today's standards.

But then we get to the root system. In the roots of the tree of life are things that aren't alive yet, still below the threshold between life and non-life. Organic molecules, small interacting systems, eventually joining together at the base of the tree to form the first life. Unlike the branches, the roots are quite tangled into one another, and we haven't sorted them out very well because we can't see them very well at all, and they're all jumbled up: growing around each other and into each other and whatnot.
Abiogenesis tries to answer how this happened by looking at the period when the tree of life first broke the surface, and by trying to grow new trees of life now. Most of it is still highly speculative, though.

Layra-chan
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Fourth_Fret

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:46 pm


Layra-chan
We represent all lifeforms evolutionarily as parts of a big "tree of life," where currently living things are like the tips of twigs, and we can trace back their ancestry like tracing back along those twigs to branches. A tree is a rather pertinent analogy because just as branches have lots of twigs coming off of them, so do past life forms often have multiple new life forms evolving from them.
So we are on one twig, and if you trace back, the twig we're on and the twig that, say, chimpanzees are on, join together, representing the period when we still had common ancestors. Then going further back brings us another joining, our common ancestors with, say, gorillas, and then monkeys, and then mammals in general, etc.

Since all of the branches must come off of a central trunk, we say that, metaphorically, the beings of this trunk must be the ancestors of all living organisms. As far as we can tell, they were probably very simple, single-celled organisms, things that we would barely consider alive by today's standards.

But then we get to the root system. In the roots of the tree of life are things that aren't alive yet, still below the threshold between life and non-life. Organic molecules, small interacting systems, eventually joining together at the base of the tree to form the first life. Unlike the branches, the roots are quite tangled into one another, and we haven't sorted them out very well because we can't see them very well at all, and they're all jumbled up: growing around each other and into each other and whatnot.
Abiogenesis tries to answer how this happened by looking at the period when the tree of life first broke the surface, and by trying to grow new trees of life now. Most of it is still highly speculative, though.




so.....umm can you answer my very first question about cell theories.also, i know that it's only a theory not a law.so doesn't it mean that it can be diproven? such as the very first cell.since it was the first one, it didn't come from any preexisting cells. stare I just really want to know before i piss off my teacher on asking questions like that.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:34 pm


SchoolBoyKarl
so.....umm can you answer my very first question about cell theories.also, i know that it's only a theory not a law.so doesn't it mean that it can be disproven? such as the very first cell.since it was the first one, it didn't come from any preexisting cells. stare I just really want to know before i piss off my teacher on asking questions like that.


Well, to begin with, the idea of the first cell coming from other cells simply doesn't make any sense, so I think we can throw out that idea from the start. We know for certain that the first cells came from not other cells but from inorganic molecules, by the virtue of being the first cells.

Now, I think the cell theory that you're referring to is something akin to panspermia, which states that life on Earth actually originated in space and was transported here via asteroids hitting the Earth. Panspermia (in its basic form) makes no claims as to where those extraterrestrial cells came from, though, thus neatly sidestepping the actual question of the origins of life. It is plausible, but at the moment not very helpful.

Layra-chan
Crew


Morberticus

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:43 pm


Layra-chan
SchoolBoyKarl
so.....umm can you answer my very first question about cell theories.also, i know that it's only a theory not a law.so doesn't it mean that it can be disproven? such as the very first cell.since it was the first one, it didn't come from any preexisting cells. stare I just really want to know before i piss off my teacher on asking questions like that.


Well, to begin with, the idea of the first cell coming from other cells simply doesn't make any sense, so I think we can throw out that idea from the start. We know for certain that the first cells came from not other cells but from inorganic molecules, by the virtue of being the first cells.


Hmm... This is where we have to start watching our terminology. Our cells are essentially colonies of organelles. So while life may have originally emerged from organic molecules, the first cells (as we know them today) emerged from a kind of 'fusion' evolution process, where the ancestors of mitochondria and many other organelles were originally independant but developed symbiotic relationships that lead to the complex machines we call eucaryotic cells.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if the OP is talking about things like animal/plant cells then we're not completely in the dark.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:37 am


Morberticus
Layra-chan
SchoolBoyKarl
so.....umm can you answer my very first question about cell theories.also, i know that it's only a theory not a law.so doesn't it mean that it can be disproven? such as the very first cell.since it was the first one, it didn't come from any preexisting cells. stare I just really want to know before i piss off my teacher on asking questions like that.


Well, to begin with, the idea of the first cell coming from other cells simply doesn't make any sense, so I think we can throw out that idea from the start. We know for certain that the first cells came from not other cells but from inorganic molecules, by the virtue of being the first cells.


Hmm... This is where we have to start watching our terminology. Our cells are essentially colonies of organelles. So while life may have originally emerged from organic molecules, the first cells (as we know them today) emerged from a kind of 'fusion' evolution process, where the ancestors of mitochondria and many other organelles were originally independent but developed symbiotic relationships that lead to the complex machines we call eukaryotic cells.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if the OP is talking about things like animal/plant cells then we're not completely in the dark.


I would have thought that prokaryotic cells would have evolved first, but yes, you are right.
On the other hand, while we're not completely in the dark, I'd say that the most important part of the cell, the information storage and replication system, is still somewhat up in the air. I wouldn't call anything without such a system a cell.
Anyway, if he is talking specifically about plant/animal cells, then his teacher ought to be shot for being vague. I was assuming that there was a more interesting miscommunication going on, but if it is just a distinction between plant/animal cells and cells in general, then I'll be very disappointed.
So, Karl, was your teacher actually talking about cells in general, or specifically the plant/animal cells, for strange but inevitably stupid reasons?

Layra-chan
Crew


Fourth_Fret

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:37 pm


Layra-chan
Morberticus
Layra-chan
SchoolBoyKarl
so.....umm can you answer my very first question about cell theories.also, i know that it's only a theory not a law.so doesn't it mean that it can be disproven? such as the very first cell.since it was the first one, it didn't come from any preexisting cells. stare I just really want to know before i piss off my teacher on asking questions like that.


Well, to begin with, the idea of the first cell coming from other cells simply doesn't make any sense, so I think we can throw out that idea from the start. We know for certain that the first cells came from not other cells but from inorganic molecules, by the virtue of being the first cells.


Hmm... This is where we have to start watching our terminology. Our cells are essentially colonies of organelles. So while life may have originally emerged from organic molecules, the first cells (as we know them today) emerged from a kind of 'fusion' evolution process, where the ancestors of mitochondria and many other organelles were originally independent but developed symbiotic relationships that lead to the complex machines we call eukaryotic cells.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but if the OP is talking about things like animal/plant cells then we're not completely in the dark.


I would have thought that prokaryotic cells would have evolved first, but yes, you are right.
On the other hand, while we're not completely in the dark, I'd say that the most important part of the cell, the information storage and replication system, is still somewhat up in the air. I wouldn't call anything without such a system a cell.
Anyway, if he is talking specifically about plant/animal cells, then his teacher ought to be shot for being vague. I was assuming that there was a more interesting miscommunication going on, but if it is just a distinction between plant/animal cells and cells in general, then I'll be very disappointed.
So, Karl, was your teacher actually talking about cells in general, or specifically the plant/animal cells, for strange but inevitably stupid reasons?


uhh she was talking about plant/animal cells.well, i kinda was focusing on the cell theory more. so i don't know about what kinds they are talking about.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:00 pm


I can't wait to take psychics ^__^

sugar-baby-2004


A Lost Iguana
Crew

Aged Pants

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:01 pm


Psychics? o_O
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:09 pm


sugar-baby-2004
I can't wait to take psychics ^__^


If you meant physics here, then this is the funniest mispelling I've encountered in a long time.

burgese

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The Physics and Mathematics Guild

 
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