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 Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:14 am
so i noticed that there was a little dispute about how much women earn in comparison to men. i've always heard that women get paid (as a national average) 25% less than men do but i decided to look up some statistics and stuff to see what the ratio actually is and to see the progress women have made in the past 50 or so years. here's what i found: Quote: Womens Wages and Salaries Male Female Accountant $46,332 $33,852 Architect $51,116 $35,828 Computers $74,000 $67,000 Finance $60,008 $36,556 Law $69,680 $50,648 Biologist $41,652 $34,632 Working Mothers Nearly 60% of full-time working American women who work year round get paid less than @25,000 a year. (Amazoncastle.com) 78% of all single parent women are employed (Bureau of Labor Statistics) 45.4% of all single parents women have multiple jobs. (Bureau of Labor Statistics) 47% work fulltime year round, while 32% work either part time or part of the year, usually while going to school. Sleep, self-time, and chores are among the top things working mothers forgo to spend time with their children. (University of Maryland Study) While the hourly wage for women without children is 90% of men's hourly wages, the comparable figure for women with children is 70%. (Womensnews.org)In 49 states the average annual cost of child care exceeds the annual cost of public college tuition. (National Association of Working Women) Single parent women experience the highest rate of unemployment, and receive the lowest rate of pay regardless of their education. If single working mothers earned as much as comparable men, their family incomes would increase by nearly 17% and their poverty rates would be cut in half, from 25.3% to 12.6%. (AFL-CIO, Institute for Women's Policy Research) Webpage Title"...Women, on average, earned 76 cents for every dollar that men brought home, down from a record-high 77 cents on the dollar in 2002, according to the latest annual report from the nonpartisan U.S. General Accounting Office." find the rest of this article here.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:44 am
Those statistics are prof that men and women asre still not as equal as they should be. This is quite a problem and it must be addressed. It is ridiculous how single moms have to survive. Carrying two jobs and giving up time for cleaning or sleeping so that they may interact with their children. Will chat more later.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:59 am
i think that some of this results from the stereotypes of men and women. women are seen as the placid, domestic homemakers, while men are the breadwinners. since men are the ones typically responsible for making money, they're 'supposed' to be there and therefore they get more money. there is still a disproportionate amount of men in the workforce, compared to women.
i live in a very wealthy suburb where the majority of the women don't work. they go off to college, major in something useless, get married, and come back here to stay at home and raise their children [and play tennis and have weekly coffee group]. on the flip side, however, many of the mothers who do work are extremely successful. my mother makes more money that my father, and this is the case in many families here.
in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to education and stereotypes. women don't bother to become as educated, because they're stereotypically the ones you see staying at home caring for the children. pregnant teens: 58% of the time they don't graduate high school; 50% of the time, they end up on welfare. the fathers go on to be extremely successful because it's 'not their responsibility'.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:04 am
Rebel Girl i think that some of this results from the stereotypes of men and women. women are seen as the placid, domestic homemakers, while men are the breadwinners. since men are the ones typically responsible for making money, they're 'supposed' to be there and therefore they get more money. there is still a disproportionate amount of men in the workforce, compared to women.
i live in a very wealthy suburb where the majority of the women don't work. they go off to college, major in something useless, get married, and come back here to stay at home and raise their children [and play tennis and have weekly coffee group]. on the flip side, however, many of the mothers who do work are extremely successful. my mother makes more money that my father, and this is the case in many families here.
in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to education and stereotypes. women don't bother to become as educated, because they're stereotypically the ones you see staying at home caring for the children. pregnant teens: 58% of the time they don't graduate high school; 50% of the time, they end up on welfare. the fathers go on to be extremely successful because it's 'not their responsibility'. Unfortunatly that is the case with college attendence and women. Going to college then marrying someone only to stay at home. Why not make something of that degree. Why not use it. Graduating is difficult to do in college, not everyone is accepted and not everyone makes it through. Women need to understand that you don't have to be a stereotype. We can make our own path instead of doing what society in it's stereotypes has planned for us. Also it is unfortunate that women become pregnant in high school or college and have to give up their graduation for their child only to thave the father be able to continue on with his life with out responsibility. Granted that is not the case with every single mom. Some fathers do send child support and do interact with their children. I have nothing against single mothers. I was raised that way. I would however like that fathers would be more in the child's life if it is healthy for the child.
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:23 pm
Rebel Girl i think that some of this results from the stereotypes of men and women. women are seen as the placid, domestic homemakers, while men are the breadwinners. since men are the ones typically responsible for making money, they're 'supposed' to be there and therefore they get more money. there is still a disproportionate amount of men in the workforce, compared to women.
i live in a very wealthy suburb where the majority of the women don't work. they go off to college, major in something useless, get married, and come back here to stay at home and raise their children [and play tennis and have weekly coffee group]. on the flip side, however, many of the mothers who do work are extremely successful. my mother makes more money that my father, and this is the case in many families here.
in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to education and stereotypes. women don't bother to become as educated, because they're stereotypically the ones you see staying at home caring for the children. pregnant teens: 58% of the time they don't graduate high school; 50% of the time, they end up on welfare. the fathers go on to be extremely successful because it's 'not their responsibility'. Yeah, I agree with you completely; stereotypes of men and women have a lot to do with their salaries. Also, because of the stereotypes, I think that women who do work would feel more obligated than men to take days off to care for their children(if they're sick or it's in the summer...) and don't work as much overtime because they feel like they need to be at home taking care of their families....I dunno, that might have something to do with the difference in men and women's salaries...
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:20 pm
super_nerd42 Rebel Girl i think that some of this results from the stereotypes of men and women. women are seen as the placid, domestic homemakers, while men are the breadwinners. since men are the ones typically responsible for making money, they're 'supposed' to be there and therefore they get more money. there is still a disproportionate amount of men in the workforce, compared to women.
i live in a very wealthy suburb where the majority of the women don't work. they go off to college, major in something useless, get married, and come back here to stay at home and raise their children [and play tennis and have weekly coffee group]. on the flip side, however, many of the mothers who do work are extremely successful. my mother makes more money that my father, and this is the case in many families here.
in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to education and stereotypes. women don't bother to become as educated, because they're stereotypically the ones you see staying at home caring for the children. pregnant teens: 58% of the time they don't graduate high school; 50% of the time, they end up on welfare. the fathers go on to be extremely successful because it's 'not their responsibility'. Unfortunatly that is the case with college attendence and women. Going to college then marrying someone only to stay at home. Why not make something of that degree. Why not use it. Graduating is difficult to do in college, not everyone is accepted and not everyone makes it through. Women need to understand that you don't have to be a stereotype. We can make our own path instead of doing what society in it's stereotypes has planned for us. Also it is unfortunate that women become pregnant in high school or college and have to give up their graduation for their child only to thave the father be able to continue on with his life with out responsibility. Granted that is not the case with every single mom. Some fathers do send child support and do interact with their children. I have nothing against single mothers. I was raised that way. I would however like that fathers would be more in the child's life if it is healthy for the child.
some high schools i've read about have special programs for pregnant women, but the vast majority do nothing to accommodate their students. in fact, instead of being supportive of them, many teachers and staff look down on them for becoming pregnant.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:21 pm
has anyone else recieved the bible argument on this topic? one of my close friends, who also happens to be my debate partner and a very strong christian, was discussing this with me. she said that the bible says that a woman's place is in the home, caring for her children. i didn't have much to say to that, because i'm a jew and i haven't studied the torah or the bible extensively. she also said that it's healthier for the children when their mothers stay home and raise them. as the child of a working mother, i disagreed with this, explaining that i've always had good babysitters. it also instilled in me a sense of time management and responsibility. if i had to do something with my mother involved, i had to plan it around her schedule. if i forgot my homework, i couldn't call my mother to have her bring it to me; her work is 45 minutes away from my school. comments?
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:29 pm
imadumbass Rebel Girl i think that some of this results from the stereotypes of men and women. women are seen as the placid, domestic homemakers, while men are the breadwinners. since men are the ones typically responsible for making money, they're 'supposed' to be there and therefore they get more money. there is still a disproportionate amount of men in the workforce, compared to women.
i live in a very wealthy suburb where the majority of the women don't work. they go off to college, major in something useless, get married, and come back here to stay at home and raise their children [and play tennis and have weekly coffee group]. on the flip side, however, many of the mothers who do work are extremely successful. my mother makes more money that my father, and this is the case in many families here.
in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to education and stereotypes. women don't bother to become as educated, because they're stereotypically the ones you see staying at home caring for the children. pregnant teens: 58% of the time they don't graduate high school; 50% of the time, they end up on welfare. the fathers go on to be extremely successful because it's 'not their responsibility'. Yeah, I agree with you completely; stereotypes of men and women have a lot to do with their salaries. Also, because of the stereotypes, I think that women who do work would feel more obligated than men to take days off to care for their children(if they're sick or it's in the summer...) and don't work as much overtime because they feel like they need to be at home taking care of their families....I dunno, that might have something to do with the difference in men and women's salaries...
that reminds me of a story about my mother. a long time ago, she was trying to start her own dental practice and she needed a loan. so she went to amsouth bank, explained her situation to them, and asked them to lend her the money she needed. they refused, giving her the following explanation: "you're a woman. you'll probably get pregnant and spend it all on your children." needless to say, we've never been back to amsouth since then. we also own her business now, which is hugely successful.
three posts in a row; i think this thread is tired of me for now.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:09 pm
Rebel Girl super_nerd42 Rebel Girl i think that some of this results from the stereotypes of men and women. women are seen as the placid, domestic homemakers, while men are the breadwinners. since men are the ones typically responsible for making money, they're 'supposed' to be there and therefore they get more money. there is still a disproportionate amount of men in the workforce, compared to women.
i live in a very wealthy suburb where the majority of the women don't work. they go off to college, major in something useless, get married, and come back here to stay at home and raise their children [and play tennis and have weekly coffee group]. on the flip side, however, many of the mothers who do work are extremely successful. my mother makes more money that my father, and this is the case in many families here.
in my opinion, a lot of it comes down to education and stereotypes. women don't bother to become as educated, because they're stereotypically the ones you see staying at home caring for the children. pregnant teens: 58% of the time they don't graduate high school; 50% of the time, they end up on welfare. the fathers go on to be extremely successful because it's 'not their responsibility'. Unfortunatly that is the case with college attendence and women. Going to college then marrying someone only to stay at home. Why not make something of that degree. Why not use it. Graduating is difficult to do in college, not everyone is accepted and not everyone makes it through. Women need to understand that you don't have to be a stereotype. We can make our own path instead of doing what society in it's stereotypes has planned for us. Also it is unfortunate that women become pregnant in high school or college and have to give up their graduation for their child only to thave the father be able to continue on with his life with out responsibility. Granted that is not the case with every single mom. Some fathers do send child support and do interact with their children. I have nothing against single mothers. I was raised that way. I would however like that fathers would be more in the child's life if it is healthy for the child.
some high schools i've read about have special programs for pregnant women, but the vast majority do nothing to accommodate their students. in fact, instead of being supportive of them, many teachers and staff look down on them for becoming pregnant.I do agree with what you say. The whole idea of the feminist movement is to provide a choice in the future for all women and not to be degraded in whatever path they choose. It isn't a mistake to have a child and teachers/proffessors can be more understanding. Pregnant women and single mothers are only trying to make a way for themselves and a family in the world. Just like the rest of us. Their way should not be any harder than ours.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:23 pm
Rebel Girl has anyone else recieved the bible argument on this topic? one of my close friends, who also happens to be my debate partner and a very strong christian, was discussing this with me. she said that the bible says that a woman's place is in the home, caring for her children. i didn't have much to say to that, because i'm a jew and i haven't studied the torah or the bible extensively. she also said that it's healthier for the children when their mothers stay home and raise them. as the child of a working mother, i disagreed with this, explaining that i've always had good babysitters. it also instilled in me a sense of time management and responsibility. if i had to do something with my mother involved, i had to plan it around her schedule. if i forgot my homework, i couldn't call my mother to have her bring it to me; her work is 45 minutes away from my school. comments? My mother is also a working mom in addition to being a single one. She has a lot of responsibility in the army and is currently in Iraq. So I completly know where you're coming from. I am also a devout Christian and I have read the bible. I don't know where it says a womans place is in the home, but I also take in the fact when I read the bible that most of the books were written by men of ancient days and the books chosen to be in the bible where also picked by men at the Council of Nycea that left out the gospel of Mary Magdalane. Just a factor that I include in my perspective of a reading. Because my mother is so busy I have alwys had babysitters and even a nanny when we lived in Panama. I was always taken care of. My mother has raised me well despite being a working mom. I don't think that I am less healthy than kids with a stay at home mom. I have some of the best grades in school and am a very resposible person because of my mother's condition. With her gone alot I have had to look after my sister and be able to take care of myself. This included cooking, cleaning, homework, (mostly personal responsibility). And know what, I wouldn't want to be raised any other way. Also, why does it have to be a stay at home mom. Why not a dad? Men can be stay at home dads and raise a perfectly normal child.
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Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:05 pm
A year and a half ago my dad stopped working because my mom was making enough money to take care of everything. She got her job about that time, and it was very well paying. So my family was kinda reversed for a while, now they both work which leaves me and my younger brother to stay at home and take care of everything. I personnaly find nothing wrong with that at all.
As for the bible saying where a woman should be; thats one of the reasons that I've made a point never to open one. [Disclaimer: No I'm not Athiest, I do beleive in A god, but don't claim any religion]
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:48 pm
Doubtful Salmon A year and a half ago my dad stopped working because my mom was making enough money to take care of everything. She got her job about that time, and it was very well paying. So my family was kinda reversed for a while, now they both work which leaves me and my younger brother to stay at home and take care of everything. I personnaly find nothing wrong with that at all. As for the bible saying where a woman should be; thats one of the reasons that I've made a point never to open one. [Disclaimer: No I'm not Athiest, I do beleive in A god, but don't claim any religion] Of course there is nothing wrong with your situation. There is nothing wrong with having a stay at home dad or two working parents while raising kids to be able to think for themselves when the time comes. I am also a Christian and a reader of the bible, however, I do not think that there is a place for a woman unless she chooses it herself out of her own free will.
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:09 pm
super_nerd42 Rebel Girl has anyone else recieved the bible argument on this topic? one of my close friends, who also happens to be my debate partner and a very strong christian, was discussing this with me. she said that the bible says that a woman's place is in the home, caring for her children. i didn't have much to say to that, because i'm a jew and i haven't studied the torah or the bible extensively. she also said that it's healthier for the children when their mothers stay home and raise them. as the child of a working mother, i disagreed with this, explaining that i've always had good babysitters. it also instilled in me a sense of time management and responsibility. if i had to do something with my mother involved, i had to plan it around her schedule. if i forgot my homework, i couldn't call my mother to have her bring it to me; her work is 45 minutes away from my school. comments? My mother is also a working mom in addition to being a single one. She has a lot of responsibility in the army and is currently in Iraq. So I completly know where you're coming from. I am also a devout Christian and I have read the bible. I don't know where it says a womans place is in the home, but I also take in the fact when I read the bible that most of the books were written by men of ancient days and the books chosen to be in the bible where also picked by men at the Council of Nycea that left out the gospel of Mary Magdalane. Just a factor that I include in my perspective of a reading. Because my mother is so busy I have alwys had babysitters and even a nanny when we lived in Panama. I was always taken care of. My mother has raised me well despite being a working mom. I don't think that I am less healthy than kids with a stay at home mom. I have some of the best grades in school and am a very resposible person because of my mother's condition. With her gone alot I have had to look after my sister and be able to take care of myself. This included cooking, cleaning, homework, (mostly personal responsibility). And know what, I wouldn't want to be raised any other way. Also, why does it have to be a stay at home mom. Why not a dad? Men can be stay at home dads and raise a perfectly normal child.
have you read the gospel of mary magdalane? is it even possible to do so? i always point out bible verses that have changed over the years (you can sell your daughter into slavery; you can't cut your hair; you can't pray if you have an eye defect...i printed out a cheat sheet of them xd )
when i said babysitters, i meant nannies, but i don't really like the word nanny. since i can't drive yet, we've hired a nanny to watch my sister and i after school, drive our carpools, take us to sports, etc. i've done excellently. i enjoyed having the time away from my parents to learn responsiblity.
i fully endorse the idea of a stay-at-home dad. i fight with my dad a lot, so it wouldn't really be ideal for my family, but it's a perfectly acceptable idea.
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:03 pm
Rebel Girl super_nerd42 Rebel Girl has anyone else recieved the bible argument on this topic? one of my close friends, who also happens to be my debate partner and a very strong christian, was discussing this with me. she said that the bible says that a woman's place is in the home, caring for her children. i didn't have much to say to that, because i'm a jew and i haven't studied the torah or the bible extensively. she also said that it's healthier for the children when their mothers stay home and raise them. as the child of a working mother, i disagreed with this, explaining that i've always had good babysitters. it also instilled in me a sense of time management and responsibility. if i had to do something with my mother involved, i had to plan it around her schedule. if i forgot my homework, i couldn't call my mother to have her bring it to me; her work is 45 minutes away from my school. comments? My mother is also a working mom in addition to being a single one. She has a lot of responsibility in the army and is currently in Iraq. So I completly know where you're coming from. I am also a devout Christian and I have read the bible. I don't know where it says a womans place is in the home, but I also take in the fact when I read the bible that most of the books were written by men of ancient days and the books chosen to be in the bible where also picked by men at the Council of Nycea that left out the gospel of Mary Magdalane. Just a factor that I include in my perspective of a reading. Because my mother is so busy I have alwys had babysitters and even a nanny when we lived in Panama. I was always taken care of. My mother has raised me well despite being a working mom. I don't think that I am less healthy than kids with a stay at home mom. I have some of the best grades in school and am a very resposible person because of my mother's condition. With her gone alot I have had to look after my sister and be able to take care of myself. This included cooking, cleaning, homework, (mostly personal responsibility). And know what, I wouldn't want to be raised any other way. Also, why does it have to be a stay at home mom. Why not a dad? Men can be stay at home dads and raise a perfectly normal child.
have you read the gospel of mary magdalane? is it even possible to do so? i always point out bible verses that have changed over the years (you can sell your daughter into slavery; you can't cut your hair; you can't pray if you have an eye defect...i printed out a cheat sheet of them xd )
when i said babysitters, i meant nannies, but i don't really like the word nanny. since i can't drive yet, we've hired a nanny to watch my sister and i after school, drive our carpools, take us to sports, etc. i've done excellently. i enjoyed having the time away from my parents to learn responsiblity.
i fully endorse the idea of a stay-at-home dad. i fight with my dad a lot, so it wouldn't really be ideal for my family, but it's a perfectly acceptable idea.It is possible to read the gospel of Mary Magdalane. Some book stores do sell it. I haven't checked on the internet for it but I am sure you will find some information. The reason it can even be read now is because Dan Brown's book, "The DaVinci Code" has brought it some new publicity. It goes into saying Jesus married Magdalane and had a child. Pretty popular subject right now. I understood that you said nannies. I also had a nanny when I lived in Panama. My mom, being single, would have ot go out on military training exercies often ranging from one night to two weeks (sometimes a couple of months, but not often). I had a native nanny who would watch ober me, I was five and six. When my mom had to leave I would go to my sitter's house in third world country Panama. I would eat, sleep, even go to school in the villages. From this I did learn personal responsiblity. You are so true about the morals you learn from being able to venture on your own without your parents around to always influence every step you take. I would also love a stay at home dad. My dad and I don't know each other very well. He is always out of the country. He is also in the army and is currently with my mom in Iraq. I hear from them regualry by e-mail and they are both fine. Thanks, I always thought my mom was awesome, she is my top role model.
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