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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:12 pm
So, 'cause that last thing was pointless pretty much and I have an even better topic... It's changed.
So, I was reading 1984 by George Orwell today, and it was written that people were not allowed to know any languages aside from English and Newspeak [kind of a constructed language, that has a reduced vocabulary every single year], in Oceania- which is the Americas, Africa, some islands, and I think parts of Europe. I think that really sucks pygmy puffers, personally. :
However, anyway, the point is... the discussion of the book, if you've read it. The discussion may also be about the languages-in-Oceania-thing as well, as it made me immensely upset.
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:40 pm
Vajra B. Hairava Okay, that guy obviously has gender issues, and types kind of annoyingly to boot. He doesn't really make sense at all, and he is fighting a losing battle for his half baked theory.
But, the kinda overly formal way you talked gives you a snobby air, and calling him "dear" is really, really obnoxious.
Nothing personal against you, but franky, both of you were annoying,
This is why I avoid the ED. It brings out the worst in everybody.
Mhm. I didn't take it personally. smile
Maybe, but a lot of things do.
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Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:57 pm
Nuu powst! Why is it so upsetting? Its still pretty dang fictional. I believe the idea was that, eventually newspeak would eventually replace english as the language of the people, and because the language is controlled by the party, they will continue to reduce words, in order to reduce thought as much as possible to the neccesary basics, and to tailor the language so that people would not have ways to express any dislike or defiance of the party. But, I think that that would only work if the sapir-whorf hypothesis holds completely true, and thought is controlled by the words we have to express it. But, I think that even if the thoughts can't be eplicitly stated in words, they can still be thought, or more like "felt". Things that can't talk, like babies and animals, with no (complex) language are still able to understand the world around them. So, even if the people's capacity to think what they are not wanted to think is reduced though the use of newspeak, they would still be able to think it, just not excplicitly in words. But, I think that the goal of the party was to be completely blindly obeyed by the people, not just on the surface, but in their thoughts as well. And since it seems to me that it can't be done, newspeak would be a partially futile effort. And the people in that book are totally screwed anyhow. Kind of a depressing book.
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:06 am
I was going to babble about the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, but Viagra has beaten me to it. xp
1984 has got to be one of the most immensely creepy books I've ever read. I mean, it was really a good book, but it really creeped me out.
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Eccentric Iconoclast Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:59 pm
@Vajra: It's upsetting, in theory, because I'd (granted, if I were to live in a world such as the book's, I'd feel differently on this matter) hate to not be able to learn things like languages.
Yes, you're right, but personally, I kind of think that feelings aren't very useful unless you may be able to put a name/definition to them. ninja
@EI: 3nodding Quite creepy indeed.
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:21 pm
How do you mean? Even if you can't put a specific name to an emotion, that doesn't mean it isn't there.
And if you lived in that world anyway, you're officialy screwed, the end.
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:40 am
Yes... But, if you didn't have a name to put to it, or some loose term, it would be hard to act upon it, wouldn't it? Because one has never seen that emotion acted out, and therefore doesn't have an example. Like, if we didn't have the word 'hunger' (or any similar term in meaning), you wouldn't know you had to eat in order to get rid of the feeling, would you?
3nodding Quite.
I finished the book early, 12 o'clock early, this morning and I have to say I was kind of annoyed, I gues, how Orwell repeated the fact that he had no idea how much time had passed in the Ministry of Love. I got it after the first two or three times. Bleh. It also kind of made me laugh, how it ended, that is.
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