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 Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:52 am
Things I’ve noticed going through the questions –
In a solo, if you own both characters, each character has to have 500 words for it to count for a point. If Character 1 has 320, and Character 2 has 562, then only character 2 is getting credit for a point. Yes, you WROTE 882 words, but not for EACH character.
The mitigation provided by roleplaying an aoide is no longer accounted for. There used to be a ruling that stated, as long as it was infrequent and related somehow to the business of the god, a player could rp their aoide, heroic mortals, etc and have it count towards their tally as a god. New system relegates aoide to plot devices and sig candy. Yet another mitigation would probably become overcomplicated, anyway. The same goes for ageless immortals, heroic mortals and any and all characters/creatures not directly from the shop. How do people feel about this?
Pre-ownership role play and accounting – all players are welcomed, and encouraged, to play their host characters prior to receiving a gem. At some point it was negotiated in the past that these role-plays would be given half credit. That is no longer in effect under the new system. Accounting of level begins from the start of the development of the god/gem, all the more so to focus on this being the god’s story and not that of the mortal.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .on to answering some questions - Fairymount Is it RPs plus WoG only for Jewel to Morph? And then future stages would be allowed to be the mix of RP, WoG and commissioned stuff, yes? Don’t know what you found confusing, since you read it exactly right. The WoG, Commissions and Art Gifts are all mitigation to use the word up there. Mitigation being defined as the act of mitigating, or lessening the force or intensity of something, in this case the beastly numbers of the reqs. So for the first stage, jewel to morph, the only mitigation allowed is with Works of Glory. It’s not a very steep number anyway if people are getting the 1001+ word ratings of 2 points, so too much mitigation would entirely circumvent actually developing the story of the character. All the other stages all the mitigation options apply and can be utilized if players so choose to spend the time, effort, energy and funds. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Meepfur Very happy with that :3. Question about the "Compromise" option: do you start at the tally points you had when you made the last evolution you had under the old system (say, 130) or at the new 100 base for youth? If it's the former...Rio's last tally was lost, I think. Would he then start at the old 120 minimum for youth, or...? Rio would be sitting at, since Youth: 24 story points; 5 commission points; 1 gift point. 30 total. +30 if all solos are filled in/adjusted. +14 if all current RPs are finished/old ones permitted wrapped. As per the example: They may start counting rps since the date of their last evolution. If HerpDerp, god of Stupidity, was an old character and his last evolution was to Youth on Jan. 2 2009, then all his rps after that date would be counted on the new system towards deity. To make it a personal example - Desiderio evolved to a youth Sat Sep 06, 2008. Page 24 of your journal is where the dates begin from that evolution. 100 req points are Youth, and starting count from there
Word # - req points / post title
1108 – 2pts RP with Kishara
1369 – 2 pts Honey, I'm home?
1285 - 2 pts RP with Joss
1448 - 2 pts Hide and Seek
1578 – 2pts RP with Kishara
1262 – 2 pts RP with Eamnonn and Adi
945 – 1 pt RP with Harmodius and Adi (2 if count Adi’s )
Solo #43 - 478 – 0 pts
1132 – 2pts Language of Love
1029 by pg2 – 2pts It's the right time for peaceblooms, isn't it?
101, 1 post – 0pts Warm Hands, Cold Heart
1071 – 2pts A Cute Friend For You!
89 (mostly adi) - 0pts Lost Love's Return
788 – 1pt Solo #49
1527 – 2pts Separation Anxiety
697 - 1 pt Solo #59
968 – 1pt Solo #60
518 – 1pt Solo #61
380 (rio. 773 total) - 0pts Solo #62
567 – 1 pt Just a Little Break...
1073 – 2pts Little Bit O' Love
516 - 1 pt You wanted a werewolf, right?
642 – 1pt solo #72
461 (rio) – 0 pts Why So Saurus?
1624 - 2pts Father of the Aoide
1001+ - 2pts Suspicious Activities
34 pointsCommissions– 4 in journal + the commissioned port by me = 5pts T otal – 39 towards deity, meaning you need another 61 pts. You’ve got at least 10 Adi – only rps that have a lot to do with adi’s development as a character and not a lot to do with Rio, your shop pet. Considering most of your joint rps easily hit over the 1001+ mark, that’s another 20 pts that, while you may have been having fun, and I do like adi, don’t help Desiderio. This does illustrate VERY nicely where consideration of the old Tally’s (if they are still existant) would come in handy to use instead of the evolution date. While Rio may have evolved (gotten art) in september, there was a long wait due to Asahi and Reyna being the colourists and Asahi was moving to japan at the time. It had gotten long enough that I stepped in and did it with Reyna. I still have the old tally, and it stopped on Page 22. So unaccounted in this case are if you filled in Page 21 post 1, page 22 posts 6, 10 , 11, and all of page 23. As I check on it: 21 post 1 is still a reserve. 22, post 6 is a merge solo still unwritten, 10 is still a solo, 11 is filled in #48 - [Edel PRP] Look out world!. At more than 1001+ for 2 pts. From there add on as well – 829 – 1pt #49 RP 1089 – 1pt #50 RP 646 – 1pt #51 RP 1001+ - 2pts #53 RP 1398 = 2pts #54 RP 1001+ - 2 pts #55 RP 931 – 1pt #56 RP So that’s another 10 req points right there to account for. I definitely think this supports the need to have a clause on the Compromise where if the Old Tally still exists, it is consulted for where to start counting. In cases where it doesn’t, the best that can be done is the evolution date. In which case IF you chose to Grandfather Compromise on Rio, you’d be at 49/100 that need to be completed. Which means like... 26 regular joint rps since as I was looking at them most of the ones with rio go about 2-3 pages and hit over the 1001+ mark. Or make a few works of glory to get that 15 points an its literally 18 pts left or about 9 of your regular 3 page rps where Rio is awesomely hitting on people. All in all, really not that far to go. You’ve got 27 other reserves in the journal since then.
PAGE 24
RP #59 ((Renaming.))
PAGE 25
Solo #44((Naaaanda.)
Solo #45((Visit from Ashoka!))
Solo #46((Arrow-carvin'.))
Solo #47((Take that, Hiljaisuus!))
Solo #48((...y look, it's Ashoka again.))
Adi/Seduce log goes here.
PAGE 26
Solo #50 Nashwa wakes up~
Solo #51 More Nashwa!
RP #70 Hallparty!
Solo #52
Solo #53 All grown up.
RP #72
Solo #54 Sarka!
Solo #55 Sarka is suspicious.
Solo #56 Scouting, arrow-carving.
Solo #57 Shooting~
Solo #58 Effects
PAGE 27
Solo #63 Cwmwl
Solo #64
Solo #65
Solo #66
Solo #67
Solo #68
Solo #69
Solo #70
Solo #71
PAGE 28
Solo #73 Comforting Adi.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:35 am
Ivynian Things I’ve noticed going through the questions –The mitigation provided by roleplaying an aoide is no longer accounted for. There used to be a ruling that stated, as long as it was infrequent and related somehow to the business of the god, a player could rp their aoide, heroic mortals, etc and have it count towards their tally as a god. New system relegates aoide to plot devices and sig candy. Yet another mitigation would probably become overcomplicated, anyway. The same goes for ageless immortals, heroic mortals and any and all characters/creatures not directly from the shop. How do people feel about this? I've generally assumed they don't count, so fine by me! Although, if you're using them (or any other character) to get gem to host, does it still not count? The rest is an even more thorough answer than I expected! emotion_kirakira *clears away sleep-cobwebs* It is good that you still have the tally/remembered the art thing, as it had slipped my mind and I'd started counting after he ICly grew, which was derpy of me. Thank you! Yeah, I never figured on Adi (or Sarka, Nashwa, or anyone else XD) counting, which is why I don't number anything that doesn't have Rio in it. They are just for fun! When they're 'mixed in' in his solos (like here), though, that is okay? Instead of being separated out like the one with Tlac that I have to fix. xP Sometimes it's just easier to write everyone intermingled, sometimes not...usually depending on relationship with Rio. Several of the RPs you counted aren't finished - would it be okay to do something to wrap them to still count? Many, many thanks for the in-depth. emotion_bigheart
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:35 am
Meepfur Moar question! For old/abandoned RPs, would it be okay to sort of...tack something onto one to make it a wrap, to make it usable? I have a lot of these. orz Are followers going to go away entirely, or be part of the new point system too? I’m a bit torn on old/abandoned rps. On one hand, it’s a natural happenstance of rping with others, as noted in the new write up. On the other hand… It sucks if someone got stuck with a LOT of them (and some of the people are MIA). I’d like more input on this than just one or two people. Would a limitation of recovery work, or just make things to complicated? Like a limit of five old unfinished that can have a post added to them to close them off? That way there is still the imperative for people to be cooperative, communicate and do the footwork of PMing, messenging nad emailing each other to finish what they start, while not leaving someone high and dry if they do do the footwork and just can’t get others moving… FollowersSad to say it, as much as I like the plushie followers and the theory behind them of getting people interested in the shop maybe, it seems to intimidate most people. It hasn’t actually seemed to bring much in the way of new faces or real fans of the characters who just like to read the journals. It’s going to be done away with as an official capacity. As for those who have purchased quantity of plushies, I’m MORE than happy to issue refunds for the gold. I do think I will remake a plushie thread in an OOC forum, and those who have plushies can feel free to keep their personal tallies of followers there, if they like, for fun. I would also invite that people could start making plushies for each other, more than one stage of gods even. It would dovetail nicely into the Gift Art Mitigation. Zero Dream With the grandfather clause, we can choose per character, correct ? Say I'd like to convert Kios to the new system fully since he was never tallied, but start Xun's new tally as of his morph post and Ankou from his youth growth post ? Also for the compromise option, they still have to do the amount needed toward the next stage rather than everything ? Ex - Xun Jiang is a morph, I grandfather him in. His pre-morph count resets to 30 and I pick up from there ? Yup, per each individual edelsteine you own, you can choose a different grandfather system. As for the second question, in the Grandfather Compromise Option, yes that is how it would work if the Tally wasn’t extant. As noted in my answer to meep, I think there is need for a clause on it that states if the Tally exists, then it is consulted for date of evolution to begin tallying from. If there is no existing copy of the tally, it would work exactly as you say – reset to the base needed to have that evolution and start counting from the date the art was given.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:52 am
SkieBorne I approve of this new system. I really like the options and smattering of art options throughout the stages, and the option to grandfather or compromise. However, I thought Grigori were 1-Stage? If I remember correctly, Batraal would be starting at General, correct? Edit: My only question also goes with the WoGs - do they just need to pertain to the god? As in illustrating something of theirs? A place that is important to them? Symbols and ruins from their histories? etc etc The Grigori were originally conceived to be one stage, but if people really go to with storytelling with them as characters, then I see no reason not to reward their use of that character. They can develop and deepen their understanding of their (essentially) cult beliefs. In addition, if they’re presence as villains can be established and enjoyed it will provide a plain and obvious conflict to give people inspiration to write about. The basis of nearly all fiction is conflict of some sort, and the lack of its development has progressively hamstringed players more and more as far as from what I’ve witnessed over the years. No ‘evil’ faction ever really developed among the gods themselves. There are a lot of reasons for this, but it boils down to basic psychology – most people given a choice want to be the hero of a story. Also, in a very social, mostly female, cooperative environment everyone is very worried about getting along and not causing friction (this being a failing in the IC vs. OOC dynamic). Edelsteine needs conflict. It has for years, hence the long ago in Lucius and the hints before the grigori ever appeared, and then the gehenna arc which provided some really wonderful storytelling and activity. Villains give something to react against, versus just slice-of-life, romance, and sturm und drang development rps. And Edelsteine, being about gods, needs characters that can legitimately stand up against the gods – because of their longevity of memory, their secrets, and their inherent magic. Don’t take the wrong impression about it though, as the hope and intention remains that the Grigori can and should be killed. I also intend that as the war deepens that some of the gods will take wounds, much like Kishara’s Arm, resulting in specialized art as a reward and the badge of bad-assery that comes with veteran combat scars. Works of GloryConsidering the wide range of allowed media, of course works that pertain to the god but are not figural representations can countShould I force someone into lapidary to make a mosaic of cabochons of their god’s face instead of a necklace that utilized charms of the symbols they’d chosen for their god? Basically as long as you can make a clear argument why its related to the glorification of the god, and can explain the symbolism you used in the piece, it can count. I don’t want to stifle creativity and enthusiasm of doing something other than writing to celebrate how awesome your character is.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:54 am
Vesale Art gifted the player - This is emphasized with a higher count to encourage community reading and enthusiasm for each others characters. Each player may submit up to 5 Gifts per stage. Each is worth 1 req point. Though it says gifts are worth a higher count, they're still worth one point/can only have 5 a stage, the same as commissions? XD; yeah, that's what revisions are all about. I had been playing with 3's and 5's and such between the two and decided making it even was simpler and less to remember, just never deleted that bit.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:36 am
Ivynian Things I’ve noticed going through the questions –The mitigation provided by roleplaying an aoide is no longer accounted for. There used to be a ruling that stated, as long as it was infrequent and related somehow to the business of the god, a player could rp their aoide, heroic mortals, etc and have it count towards their tally as a god. New system relegates aoide to plot devices and sig candy. Yet another mitigation would probably become overcomplicated, anyway. The same goes for ageless immortals, heroic mortals and any and all characters/creatures not directly from the shop. How do people feel about this? Im honestly fine with this. I personally never counted them in my ghetto-tallies anyway - I rped them for flavor mostly and only put them into their owners' journals so that they didn't vanish into the abyss of the rp forum, and if I knew I was gonna refer to it with the god so people could easily refer to it as needed. It makes perfect logical sense that only things the character actually does relate to the growth of that character, yes ? At least that's how I always saw it. I didn't even know non-character rp was supposed to count in half. o_O Im also fine with starting from the tally if the tally exists. EDIT derp I knew I forgot something : On unfinished rps - I like the fact that rps have to finished for them to count overall since it will drive people to finish the scene, through sometimes s**t Happens or Life Eats People and that's understandable. What I personally do is, if the rp is far enough that it can come to a conclusion and I know the other person won't be coming back anytime soon to finish the scene properly, then I simply edit my own post to tack in a closer to remove my character from the scene, effectively finishing the rp for me - and if it included more than two people and they come back, they can continue the scene without me. For rps that are clearly stuck in the middle of a scene this is a little tricky... I'd say this : - If the rp can logically be ended at that stage, it would be the active player's responsibility to write their own end point for their character if they want to count the rps toward tally. - For rps stuck in the middle/where a lot have been done but there's no easy way to write your character out, I'd say maybe allow a tiny bit of leeway. Say maybe 2-3 max imo, and it's all you're missing, and they clearly made word count, accept them. More than that wouldn't be counted. I also think there should be a time element as well - like, you haven't had a reply or any contact with the other player for 6 months or so. - If It was near the start/not a whole lot done in the scene with no logical end point in sight, I'd call it a loss sadly.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:16 am
A couple of us queried about Temple building being available at youth stage to help give some direction and because it makes sense for a deity to have a almost functioning temple, as it shows they have enough IC followers/belief to evolve to a deity. Is this a possibility or is temple building still restricted to deity?
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:07 pm
Ivynian Pre-ownership role play and accounting – all players are welcomed, and encouraged, to play their host characters prior to receiving a gem. At some point it was negotiated in the past that these role-plays would be given half credit. That is no longer in effect under the new system. Accounting of level begins from the start of the development of the god/gem, all the more so to focus on this being the god’s story and not that of the mortal.
Do you mean pre gem ownership for the gaian or pre gem ownership for the character. Take me for example, everything I've done has been leading up to getting her gem. None of that would count in the new system?
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:47 pm
I feel that discounting all writing that is not actually of the god itself is painful. Storytelling is more than just about the main character, and often those side-stories end up relating directly to the progression of the main character. Granted, I tend to look at my Edel writing more from a novel(ish) standpoint, rather than that of a game, and I am aware this colors my perspective.
Even so, my side characters are almost exclusively involved with either my deity or someone else's, and are working together towards the progression and ascension of that deity. If we discount the posts/entries/etc of non-deity characters, that IC effort is inconsequential, and the OOC effort seems rather for naught, aside from telling a good story. Granted, I still would do it anyway, credit or no. But it does tend to make things feel less enjoyable as a writer.
A lot goes into telling the whole of the restoration of a deity, not just the direct experiences of that individual. Please don't discourage extra writing, both pre-gem and of extra characters, by making such writing unimportant.
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:31 pm
I sort of agree with Tal on the secondary characters part, that they shouldn't be discounted, only if it's something to do with the god directly.
For example if you've got an aoide and you're rping it for the sake of rping it and it doesn't have anything to directly relate to the god, then it shouldn't count. However if it serves a purpose, for example RPing relaying an important message, or asking for audience, or doing something that is part of a quest but the god sends an aoide instead because there might be something else that is important for the god to do, then it should be included/counted.
If it's important to the overall story of the god, then I say it should count. Perhaps not for full points, but for something. :3
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:05 pm
I think, if it's done sparingly and is obviously relevant to the god, then it has merit.
But either way, writing extra characters isn't necessarily unimportant - they're as important/relevant as you make them. I know Adi doesn't count for Rio 95% of the time, but that's never stopped me from playing and enjoying her (or more recently, Nashwa and Sarka). If you want to play a character, then play them. I'd also venture to say that it's not inconsequential, as they still impact others' characters (and add to their RP counts), and they can still 'go places' of their own. I was devoted enough to Adi to earn eventual aoide status for her, and Ashoka's on the Council!
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:42 pm
Ivynian The Grigori were originally conceived to be one stage, but if people really go to with storytelling with them as characters, then I see no reason not to reward their use of that character. They can develop and deepen their understanding of their (essentially) cult beliefs. In addition, if they’re presence as villains can be established and enjoyed it will provide a plain and obvious conflict to give people inspiration to write about. The basis of nearly all fiction is conflict of some sort, and the lack of its development has progressively hamstringed players more and more as far as from what I’ve witnessed over the years. No ‘evil’ faction ever really developed among the gods themselves. There are a lot of reasons for this, but it boils down to basic psychology – most people given a choice want to be the hero of a story. Also, in a very social, mostly female, cooperative environment everyone is very worried about getting along and not causing friction (this being a failing in the IC vs. OOC dynamic). Edelsteine needs conflict. It has for years, hence the long ago in Lucius and the hints before the grigori ever appeared, and then the gehenna arc which provided some really wonderful storytelling and activity. Villains give something to react against, versus just slice-of-life, romance, and sturm und drang development rps. And Edelsteine, being about gods, needs characters that can legitimately stand up against the gods – because of their longevity of memory, their secrets, and their inherent magic. Don’t take the wrong impression about it though, as the hope and intention remains that the Grigori can and should be killed. I also intend that as the war deepens that some of the gods will take wounds, much like Kishara’s Arm, resulting in specialized art as a reward and the badge of bad-assery that comes with veteran combat scars. Works of GloryConsidering the wide range of allowed media, of course works that pertain to the god but are not figural representations can countShould I force someone into lapidary to make a mosaic of cabochons of their god’s face instead of a necklace that utilized charms of the symbols they’d chosen for their god? Basically as long as you can make a clear argument why its related to the glorification of the god, and can explain the symbolism you used in the piece, it can count. I don’t want to stifle creativity and enthusiasm of doing something other than writing to celebrate how awesome your character is. So then, for the sake of conflict, the Grigori Generals are equivalent to a Youth? or a Deity? (I still need to work out what he actually knows for Old Tongue in the case of Batraal) And a list of 'powers' would be delightful - I'm not entirely sure what all is involved with the Grigori's abilities. If they're to legitimately stand up to the Gods, one would assume their 'badassery' would suit in terms of skills. xD; And thanks for the clarification on WoGs!
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:16 am
Meepfur I think, if it's done sparingly and is obviously relevant to the god, then it has merit. But either way, writing extra characters isn't necessarily unimportant - they're as important/relevant as you make them. I know Adi doesn't count for Rio 95% of the time, but that's never stopped me from playing and enjoying her (or more recently, Nashwa and Sarka). If you want to play a character, then play them. I'd also venture to say that it's not inconsequential, as they still impact others' characters (and add to their RP counts), and they can still 'go places' of their own. I was devoted enough to Adi to earn eventual aoide status for her, and Ashoka's on the Council! ^I agree with this^ There has to be a line drawn somewhere. The more exceptions and little side rules the more complicated things become for New People. One purpose of the new system is to make things clearer.
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:19 am
midnight_medea A couple of us queried about Temple building being available at youth stage to help give some direction and because it makes sense for a deity to have a almost functioning temple, as it shows they have enough IC followers/belief to evolve to a deity. Is this a possibility or is temple building still restricted to deity? It's going to be open for anyone at any stage. It's being relegated to permanent plotline suggestion for writers. I'd like to compile a list of general ideas (ho ho SUGGESTIONS and questions) that people can look at for inspiration of what they can write about. Re-establishing a temple, looking for a lost artifact, discovering a lost personal aoide, performing a minor miracle for a small settlement are all among these.
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:24 am
Vesale Ivynian Pre-ownership role play and accounting – all players are welcomed, and encouraged, to play their host characters prior to receiving a gem. At some point it was negotiated in the past that these role-plays would be given half credit. That is no longer in effect under the new system. Accounting of level begins from the start of the development of the god/gem, all the more so to focus on this being the god’s story and not that of the mortal.
Do you mean pre gem ownership for the gaian or pre gem ownership for the character. Take me for example, everything I've done has been leading up to getting her gem. None of that would count in the new system? For the gaian/'player'. It used to be that when someone just started writing in the shop with a character (ie: prospective host) but they did not have any gem or slot for one at all they could keep their own log/journal of rps and some of those would count when they finally DID get a gem.
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