Welcome to Gaia! ::

and as Dorian said. . I said that comment as a gay joke. .he is questioning his sexuality (along with everything else). .so, I just said that to poke ^_~ him. .

it is true though that their was hostilities in the air, and they were high. . everyone can admit to being rude; you, DF, were clearly rude, I was rude mostly by implication, and Dorian was shifting between the two. .

we were all rude because we think we are right, we feel unvalidated by the other people in the discussion, and this is a topic we care much about. .

DF cares about it maybe becuase she has met some people who brag or whatever abut it, and it seems to be something she is dead set against. .. for whatever reason. .

I care about it becuase well, I trust my visions (to an extent) and when I met someone I saw in a vision years before, O.O, I beleived. . so, to be told that otherkinism has been "disproven"(when it really hasnt) upset me. .

Dorian. .who the hell knows why. . he loves to argue. . lets just leave him alone. . lol


but in the end I suppose we could all try to aggree with my previous post(unless we wnat to engage in futile pointless argumentation). . you, DF, can still use your argument, but you cant say your argument is the most likely to be correct, as it is more flawed than argument 2. Also, your argument would disprove that souls and reincarnation exists, (some of which you beleive does exist), so, if you wish to hold contradictory beleif systems, that is your choice. . or, you can come over to the "dark" side and admit it is possible they exist. . only if you want to . . we have brownies you know. ^^

me and Dorian can come away saying that we have proved that it is *possible* that otherkins exist.. . and, ****to go freaking find out for youself***. .lol. . yes, that means work. . HOMYGAWD eek

hopefully everyone can be satisifed with this. . *doubts it*. . I think it is fair, as I am not pushing my personal expereinces onto other people, or getting into how other people's experoeinces of the astral support my claim. . now, I could get into that, but, we wont. . we can be satisfied with proving that it is *possible* that they exist, and to go find out yourself, becuase, that was the point of all this. . to stimulate people to actually *try* to know what they are actually even speculating about.

Proove Opinions and beliefs and Stop stating them as Fact:
These aren't OPINIONS
Or BELIEFS
These are things I have tried Not to believe for quite some time and have tried to Disprove.

They Are Very Thoroughly gained Substantiated Evidence.

Which if you HAVEN'T been paying ANY attention to my METHODS of gaining INFORMATION I'll RESTATE.

Everything which I have said... EVERYTHING EVERY ******** WORD which you keep DEBASEING AS A BELIEF
Is Dependent on Others Perceptions, Which under no Influence of mine came to the Same conclusion as me when asking the same sources. When accessing the same sources That being the Same spirits which I was accessing for knowledge and asking questions they got the Same Answers Independent of me Telling them My answers or giving them any reason to believe the same thing as me.

It isn't a BELIEF as I Never Told ANYONE MY BELIEFS during this process. I kept what I knew to my self so that it Wouldn't Influence there findings. All of what I'm saying is based on Other people tapping the same sources and gaining the same information. Other sources Visiting places that I knew of that had comunities and Cultures and Lives. Then relating Exactly what I knew of the place back to me. Several Persons Relating this information back to me.

SEE VALID RELIABLE INFORMATION> RELIABLE MEANING THROUGH THE SAME EFFORTS I GOT THE SAME INFORMATION EVERY TIME. VALID BEING I MADE SURE THAT I COULD NOT EXPLAIN IT THROUGH OTHER MEANS.

If I was Relying Soley on my opinions then I would be somewhere along the same lines as you. You have opinions without a basis for them. Your beliefs on otherkin have nothing to do with any work with otherkin. You have Never seen a spirit much less been able to tell the validity of its form.

You can not make any references of its existance or non existance until you actually take some sort of efforts in order to substantiate your claims of its non existance.

What your supposed to do is to try to point out internal conflicts in my findings... Durr
don't try to fit my findings into a context which they are not a part of. I looked into the existance of souls without Any predispossition to any religeon. I found this this and this to be true. Without believing in souls I found souls to be true.

You seem to be trying to purposefully misinterprete what I'm saying and trying to devalue any efforts I've made to varify my information. To say that I didn't do any work to validate my information and saying that it is a belief... to devalue it and lower it to the status of a belief when I clearly tryed to explain to you my methods of gaining this information is Really Quite Rude.

Read a dictionary look up reincarnation.

Egyptian gods reincarnate with each generation

Souls of Indians supposedly reincarnate as animals and vica versa. Soul of a bear soul of a eagle and the LIKE

Andf I know that some christains can believe in reincarnation I have heard enough about that to know they believe in it to.

Knowledge of other lives and knowledge of what has happened other times that I die gives me knowledge of other times I have died DURRR
Remembering Death really is a blower I would hope I at least learned something from it like how not to get Stoned.

Souls don't stop existing change mutate ETC. They don't just pop in and out of existance. Forget previous existance change previous state and many other things but it just doesn't stop existing then magically reappear.

If a soul ever stoped existing there would be no way to know that the one that seemed to take its place was the one before.

It would be considered a new soul with a new identity not linked to the previous one. That form which it took upon re-existance would then be its original form.

See first form upon existing Original form. If it poped out of existance it would Not Exist whatever poped into existance would then have an original form.

MORAL RIGHT OR BELIEF RIGHT IS NOT THE SAME AS CONGRUENCE
A fit... isn't a moral or a psychological fit it is a fit like a glove fits... The glove could be ugly could be covered in mud could be bloody but if it has too little fingers it won't fit right.

It doesn't MATTER if you LIKE YOUR FORM that isn't what I'm talking about you silly DF It isn't Dependent on what you want it is what is. And that is the reason that some people reject there original form. I could hate the way I look and my history but no matter how much I hate the form it doesn't matter. I could hate what I've done but it doesn't change the fact that I did it. I could HATE and REJECT and Decide I didn't want to know anymore and I didn't want to be anymore and I Could just whip my memories clean and pretend I'm a different person and I have a different life but that doesn't change who I was or what I was born as. You can't escape your past.

Its still your no matter how much you dislike it it is still who you were and maybe you decided to be something else someone else.

It doesn't change your begining and that begining form will allways no matter what be a best fit. Its uncomfy to have a 4 fingered glove and to have 5 fingers.

I wrote this in a journal last night at 10:55. Things may have changed since then, but I’m still going to post this anyway:

To clear up all the crap:

I’m sick and tired of people bastardizing and manipulating and putting words in my mouth that I didn’t say and basically taking it to mean an extreme. And that’s crap. It’s done so that they can make their argument more “sound” than mine if they just mess around with what I’ve been saying the ENTIRE time. So here’s everything I’ve stated all nice and neat and any further bastardization will result in me specifically quoting this. And it will probably cut down an the time that I’m on here.

1) “You insulted everyone else first.”

Guild leader and Psychelapis both are using this exuse.

I already admitted in a general sense that I was being rude. No where did I specifically insult or damage someone else. Specifically damage and insult someone else. No where. In fact I haven’t flamed one person for being something. Because flaming would be an all out, “NO YOU’RE NOT, EBELBELBEBELBEBLEBLEBLEEBLEBLBEL!” Only with worst spelling and grammar.

The essay I wrote was for another person, yes, a guy who had been introduced to the idea of otherkin and he pmed me and asked me to answer some questions, because he wanted to hear the other side of the story. Well I wrote the essay and covered all the points we discussed in the PM, and the irony is He found my essay informative and actually thanked me for writing it. And nearly everyone else who I give it to, finds it informative. And most thank me for it.

So don’t tell me that was just soooo insulting that you had to insult my intelligence.

2) “Df’s fallacy science crap”

Final thing I’m saying on it:

Science basically is the truth on Earth. What science say is, is and what it doesn’t say is, isn’t is.

Science doesn’t believe in religion, morals, or beliefs.

Why can I discuss about otherkin?

Aside from the fact I was making sure that everyone knew they were talking complete theory, and aside that I already know the science isn’t complete and can’t explain everything.

This discussion can be considered to be like an open ended hypothesis discussion.

The whole “what if” scenario. This is why DF could and did use a purely scientifically point of view.

However, I only brought it up to make sure that everyone, guild leader, dorian, psychelapis, sin-sin and whomever else wanted to discuss this knew that it was purely theoretical and doesn’t exist in “science” world of earth.

No one should be stating a belief as a fact. Christians do it and we all b***h and moan about them.

3) “Blah, Blah, Original form, blah”

First – How do you know there is such a thing when you do not know where or from what the soul came?

That was what I was getting at when I was on about the seed/body example. The oxymoron of the “original” form would be to go to the source of the soul and then the source of that source and then the source of that source to infinity.

If the object has no set history or lineage or source that is a constant that never has changed or will change or go through any sort of flux, then how can it have an “original form”? Is there some sort of cut off point? Who is the one to say what that cut off point is?

Second – If you can change you’re so called original form that you think you started out with. That leads one to believe that your supposed starting form was possibly also altered in some manner. But not only that, but every life that gives you a new experience changes the soul, because those experiences weren’t there to start out with.

4) “You haven’t disproven otherkin”

Well, yes, I have. You all keep telling me that there are these “other” reasons, for otherkin. Yet you don’t tell me what they are, but instead say “go research it for yourself”.

So this leads me to believe that there are no other reasons, and that you just don’t want to accept that I’ve disproven the theory.

And I did disprove the theory through philosophy/religious theory almost all the way throughout the essay. The only thing “science” about it was about the Tranvestite comparison.

And I didn’t put anything about Original form because I figured that the whole listing of possible other bodies and the ever changing flux of new experiences kind of spoke for itself on what I had to say about that theory.

Psychelapis, you constantly repeat yourself over and over in one post. Like the repeating is going to make it correct. And that is specifically where you start misinterpreting all my points. And when I correct you one what I said, you go on about something else, only to come back to that same bastardized point that I never made.

I feel like I’m talking to three different people at three different stages of life.

And I’m not going to sit there and list all these out. I did in my journal so if you want them, you can pm me about it.

I’m sick and tired, very tired of all of it. I’m tired to the point of I am not going to post with emotion at all. I’m a very passionate person, and when I get into debates, my passion for my points are always very apparent.

But the whole way you keep changing what I’ve said, manipulating it, and basically using it as if I was “picking” on every person in the world specifically, is boring and tiring to me. I shouldn’t have to spend an hour on the computer trying to correct everything you misinterpret only to have to do it again.

I’m tired. So consider from now on, every post, reply or comment in a flat, monotone voice. So if you get insulted, angry, etc, don’t blame me. It’s all you, for feeling that way.

Now I shall respond:



Everyone has a different wave of energy. So because I go to someone else who claims to be otherkin doesn’t matter if I see another type or form of energy. Everyone has a different amount and a different color.



So it will basically disappear. I think the law of the conservation of energy would have something to say about that. But since that’s an “earth” term and I’m not allowed to use that as an example, I guess you would just ignore that.



I stated dorian and repeatedly stated his screen name. You could have handled it better by saying “Well, DF, I have a post on that, if you’d like to check that out”. Instead of ordering me, basically, to go look at page six to you’re post. That was wrong, and I didn’t take kindly to it.



Because he was the only one at the time actually giving me information that I felt was true and not fluffy-ized.



Same goes for me. You constantly have and will interpret every post or thing or flaw that I point out as that I’m insulting you.



Reestablishing the bastardization of my science point.



Brushed “who” off?



At the time, it sounded like you were insulting me.


May I quote it?



Number 3) Addresses this.



Number 4) Addresses this



Why can the physical plane not make it’s own energy?



I have my own theory of souls, I asked if you wanted it, you didn’t say anything. So you cannot blame me for not saying it.



You weren’t better than me in that argument since we are still talking about it and that proved the point that she was talking down to me.



You’re mind thinks it’s real, it will become real.



So you’re saying you’re an Egyptian god?



Is that many reincarnations or just one.

And I didn’t bother to read any of the complaining after that. Because I’m not in the mood. Since DF has to be in monotone for everyone to get her points.

The information that I am talking about... no matter how much I question it it remains the same. No matter what lengths I go to proove it wrong it remains the same. That my sences tell me its true and I ignored them for soo long but my sences keep telling me the same thing.

To debase findings as beliefs is still rude

And I did tell you of my research methods before. I did mention them in my arguement. This is just Restating them

Actually, you were blatently rude. . the guild captian had other peopel read these posts, and all the people agreed that you were being very rude and condesending to me, and I was being slightly rude in return. . that is several different opinions saying you were rude. . you are just too blind to see it. .

and, you are too blind to see that I have proven that you have not sufficiently disproven otherkin. . you are just to egotistical to accept that your logic is more flawed than my argument. .

ok, time for quotes I suppose. .


pompus much?. . first post in and you are already saying you are right.

so in your 2d sentence, to make matters worse, you are already saying that you are going to pwn us, and have already shown you are close minded. . already having your beleifs, that you plan to "pwn" us with


so, after you posted your essay, not even your first post in the guild (but a post your freind put up) you are already concluding without even waiting for our reply that you had won the argument. . pompus. .


first sentance after your entrance into the guild, and you are already being condesending and saying that you are right and we are wrong. . that we need to be "de-brainwashed"

and when this rudeness was pointed out

and you sure as hell havnet stopped being rude.


rude much?. . I dont remember saying my last name was "pants pants"


so now Dorian is a straw man who is false, and you are going to blow him away with your greatness..

after blatently insulting me, saying that I am talking out of my a**.. which is a very rude statement. . you also say that in a PUBLIC FORUM, IN A THREAD THAT I CREATED, I DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO RESPOND TO POSTS. POMPUS!


and you admit your post was very rude. . then threaten that if the guild captain kicks you out you will just have people post for you and that you are unstoppable. . very, very pompus. . then you proceed to tell her that she had no right to show the guild that this type of behavior is unacceptable. . you are not the captian, and if you are going to post in this guild, you have to follow her rules, or dont post. . it is very simple. . but, you seem to think that you have a right to do whatever you want, and then you b***h when we get even 1/10th as rude to you as you are being to us

then, in your next reply to me, you say I am bragging by saying that I have had some visions, then I say that I am not the best psychic or even close. . and I am bragging?. . you are just looking for flaws. . .

and here is where you really treat me like an invalid:




judging me much?





and now you solidify your thoughts about how you think I am in invalid that knows nothing. .

and it continues. . .





is that enough, or should I continue?. . their is plenty more. . actually, I will continue. . here we go. .



then, you go on to say that you are going to completely ignore me, becuase you have decided I am "false" and nothing I say has a "place on this planet". . how pompus can you get?. . seriously, do you even listen to yourself?

honestly, I think this is enough evidence of your pompus attitude. .the above quotes, all quoted from you, are CLEARLY INSULTING ME.

Dorian and I admitted that we were rude, but, your rudeness begot our rudeness, and even when I got rude, it was no where near as rude as you got. . no where near..

on to the rest ofyour post. . I will be quoting a few of the back points you have made, since I was back in that filth getting all those insults to show you what you are saying. . becuase I guess you have forgotten. .



science, only supports you when you ignore energy=matter and quantum physics. . which is taking a peice of an already incomplete system. . shame on you. . and, again, being incomplete, later on a new rule could be found to alter all the rest. . your agument holds nothing. .


again, those arent FACTS. . science is not a fact, and using only part of science is faulty reasoning. .so even if science was a fact, ignoring quantum physics, energy = matter, AND the fact that science is incomplete and an ongoing thing, your agument doesnt hold water. .

you cannot prove to me that you even exist, so your arguemtn is not based on facts but beleifs as well . . your argument has all the flaws ours does, plus several others that ours doesnt..

again, I am not touching the original form concept, as that is Sin's baby. . but, regardless, just becuase you dont understand original form concept, doesnt mean that it isnt right. . you cannot disprove what you dont understand either, so perhaps stop trying to hard and actually consider that it may be true. . may not, but, it may. . and, you are yelling at us for not being able to explain exactly how everything functions, but honestly science cant explain everything either, that is why it is INCOMPLETE. . it is incomplete just like much of the evidence we have, so, yours is no better than ours. . to prove that something does not exist, you need way more evidence then proving that it is possible. . we have shown that the argument that it is possible has less flaws then that argument that says otherkin are false, so our argument holds more water. . even our claim, that it is possible and to find out for yourself, is far less pompus then "they dont exist" when you dont even truely know what you are talking about. .

even philisophically you havent disproven otherkin .. our argumetn stands more ground, has less flaws. . your argument, taking a section of science, an already incomplete thing, and saying that only this part of science is true, so otherkin and the soul are false. . and, this even goes against your beleives, as you have admitted you beleive in concepts along the reincarnation feild. . so, your argument is pointless, becuase if you were to honestly beleive it, then you cant honestly say you beleive in reincarnation or souls. . unless you wish to lie to yourself. .

yes, I repeat myself, becuae you never actually address the fatal flaws I point out, you just pick around them. .

as shown above, you were mostly picking on me. . questioning my common sense, and treating me like an invalid. .


and about the otherkin thing again. . I said before that they often have stronger energy, and if they are awakened their form will look and feel different. . it is called energy signatures. . their is something that people share in their energy signature when they are of a simmilar race. . and, you can often tell someone from certain key characteristics in their energy. . for instance, I got a picture of this guy, looked at it, immidiatly said what I thought he was to a freind. . then, I showed it to someone else online, without saying what I thought he was(just asking about the energy of everyoen in the picutre, not even him specificially). .and, bam, same answer. .

as I said in my argument, if you want to find out, learn to astral project and expereince it. . now, again, I for one know I am not the best at any of this. . which is why I ask other people when I think I found someone odd, and have them check it out, then afterwards say what I thought of them. .

another example, me and my freind both read this girl, we both thought she was a cat. . so, then she was wondering if we were right, so, she didnt say what she was, but, she asked people to try to read her. . so, Dorian (this was before me and Dorian became freinds). . he said he felt she was furry(energy wise) and was some sort of cat or something. .

again, another test (this is not one for otherkinism). . this girl asked me to read about a specific event, so, I did. . then, she went to this other guy that I wasnt talking to about her(she didnt mention my reading), and he said the SAME EXACT THING EVEN THOUGH WE DIDNT TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT THIS (or even know that each other did the reading, untilla fter both readings were completed). . this wasnt a general reading either, it was a vision reading. . this wasnt just general stuff either, and I am not going to even mention what she asked since I dont wnat to air her business. . but we both said the same thing would happen, we both saw the same location, and we both saw it happened for the same reason. . now, maybe we may have both saw it was for the same reason, maybe we both saw the same thing would happen, but the location(not a common location that you would expect). . no ******** way. . too many simmilaries!

and this is why I say I do trust my ablility to some degree. . becuase, other people asked without any knwoedge of what I had seen see the same thing?. . and this has happened so many times before, so, I beleive. .

and, yes, you cant really use that term. . but, even if you wanted to say that, the energy will probably just break down and maybe be useable. . so, just gotta wiat and see on that one, since I havent lived through a sitatuion liek this before, to my knowledge. .

I didnt type that up as an order, that was saying "if you want to know about the war, then go check out my post on page 6". . you just interpreted it as an order. . now, you are picking apart my posts to make them seem ruder than they are, and ignoring the fact that, as proven above, you were BLATENTLY rude to me. .

even if you felt that way, saying something along the lines of "I am not listening to you anymore because you are all bs" is rather rude. . and we have already said before, me and Sin are bad at explaining things, but, that doesnt mean we dont have a clue what we are tlaking about. . or, that we are tlaking out of our "butt"

well, again, the above posts you are blatently insulting me and saying I have no common sense and this and that. . how did you expect that to be interpreted?. .

here, lets try that

lets take one of your statements

now lets try to interpret this without looking for flaws
..............."aka, no way to interpret this nicely". . get where I am going? . my posts, you could interpret it mean or nice, but, many of yours can only be interpreted as insulting. .

ok, we will give you the benefit of the doubt, and try another quote. .


trying another interpretation:
......."aka, no way to interpret this nicely"..

I may attack your concepts and flawed logic, but, I dont attack YOU . .whereas you are ATTACKING me. .

and, HOMYGAWDS THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM AND I AM ABOUT TO REPLY TO A POST YOU MADE TO DORIAN BECUASE HE IS ABSENT. . HOMYGAWDS I AM SUCH A b***h *SARCASM*

if the physical plane could make its own energy, then it would have another level of existance, energy, or, the astral as it were. . proving the astral exists. . and also, if that was how it was, then, well, damn science (the science you are using) would be false, since then their would be that energetic level to take into account. .

anyways, into theory. . the reason people can see into the future is that the astral is like, the building block of the physical. . the physical cannot exist without the energetic backing. . the energy is what supports the form, infuses the form. . everything that is physically their has energy. . I have energy, you have energy, my pencil has energy. . anyways, the resason people can see the future, is that before things occur in the physical the possibility of their manifestation exists in the astral. .that is also how magick and spells work, you affect the energetic level, and it filters down to the physical, since the physical is dependent on the astral. . now, yes, this is theory, theory and beleif, that has been tested. . now, again, the veil severaly dampens the direct effect that the astral can have on the physical, in the sense that if the veil wanst here I could levitate something, and right now I would find that severaly difficult unless I had assloads of energy to do such a thing . .

and what is your theory of souls? and what is the scientific evidence(only the parts of science that you accept of course) to back it up?

and again, I was saying that to congradulate him on his good post(thank him for arguing it for me becuase I was busy), and to poke him becuase he is considering men and laughing about the issue(infact, he is going to be gone today becuae he is going to a gay dance..lol)

People are people none the less, and even without in depth knowledge of the occult or heavy logic skills, a "newbie" can tell what is rude and what isnt.
If you had read the rest of my post, you would see that I am on topic. . and, again, you cant expect to take a stab at me and not expect me to stab back. You said I was the one being rude, so I have every right to respond to it. . but, yes, if you want to get back on track, be my guest. . if you feel so abliged, the rest of my post has some valid points. .

I will not clean it up, becuase your posts were just as messy, if not worse.

. you took every oportunity to be rude and throw in a personal remark against me. You were the first one to be rude, and very rude at that. Then you complain that we follow suite to a much smaller degree. I will continue to repost this untill you stop trying to say that I started this, becuase you did, as has been shown above.

and yes, this entire thing is a "what if" theory. . and, honestly, nothing can be proven. . we cannot prove that otherkin exist, but by nature of the fact that no one knows everything, we can fairly say that it is a *possibility* that they do. . you cannot honestly say you have proven that they do not exist. . we can honestly say that it is possible otherkin exist, becuase no one can honestly truthfully without using an assumptioin say that they are or are not, becuase nothing can be truely a fact unless you are "assuming" that certain things are real and can be facts. therefor, leaving open the possibility seems like a fair way to end the arguing. .

2) “Df’s fallacy science crap”

Final thing I’m saying on it:

Science basically is the truth on Earth. What science say is, is and what it doesn’t say is, isn’t is.

Science doesn’t believe in religion, morals, or beliefs.

Why can I discuss about otherkin?

Aside from the fact I was making sure that everyone knew they were talking complete theory, and aside that I already know the science isn’t complete and can’t explain everything.

This discussion can be considered to be like an open ended hypothesis discussion.

The whole “what if” scenario. This is why DF could and did use a purely scientifically point of view.

However, I only brought it up to make sure that everyone, guild leader, dorian, psychelapis, sin-sin and whomever else wanted to discuss this knew that it was purely theoretical and doesn’t exist in “science” world of earth.

No one should be stating a belief as a fact. Christians do it and we all b***h and moan about them.