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 Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:07 pm
Quintafeira12 Speaking of Nerfs and dev input: http://www.gaiaonline.com/journal/?mode=view&u=8357925Quote: So, the issue with zOMG was different. It wasn't a botting problem, but an issue with entirely too much gold being given out. So, what we did today was this: - take everyone that played the game yesterday (about 12k people) - sort them - look at how much the top 1% made - made that the cutoff, and reduce gold payouts once you hit cutoff So... they based the nerf... On a single day of play on a random number they chose (1%)? Shouldn't they have chosen, like, an entire week's worth and then done an average? I know it would probably not change a thing, but this way, it sounds like the change was done with very little thought given to it. It's as if they just pushed it trough Friday in an hurry to check on the weekend's result! also, that person seems to confirm the 100k theory. Still, we need to figure out how 1/2 grant goes down to as bad as 1/10.
Well, those numbers conform with the numbers they'd given us weeks ago (the 1% making 30%), so I'm sure it was more than just one day they were referecing. Even if it was, it would've been because that one day's output was at their expected average - not really because they were rushing. I still wish they would've pulled the servers down for the change, because doing it this way feels awfully underhanded, even to someone as blindly trusting as myself. sweatdrop
If that 100k mark is correct, though, Val's first idea got through (100k soft cap, 250k hard cap) - not that that matters at all. whee If they think that sharing the mechanics of the nerf would make it too easy to circumvent, though, they should say that, at least. This way, the whole weekend's observations are going to be worthless, with people intentionally trying to hit the cap, to test it. They're going to have to clarify a little bit before they can start using the numbers as data points, because I promise this weekend's data (what with the temporary/permanent 'ragequits', and the intentional nerf-testing) is going to be completely useless...
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:05 pm
Idea of doom: have the Gold grants on a timer, say some amount every 5 mins or something, so that the player can do whatver the hell they want, be it chat, kill, dance, and still get Gold. Maybe have the Ghi metter act as a grant multiplier for the social cheese. hmmm...
Ignore the botting issues and new players being unable to catch up with old ones or whatever. Both are cake. talk2hand
Aye, I'm havin'fun.
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:34 pm
Quintafeira12 Speaking of Nerfs and dev input: http://www.gaiaonline.com/journal/?mode=view&u=8357925Quote: So, the issue with zOMG was different. It wasn't a botting problem, but an issue with entirely too much gold being given out. So, what we did today was this: - take everyone that played the game yesterday (about 12k people) - sort them - look at how much the top 1% made - made that the cutoff, and reduce gold payouts once you hit cutoff So... they based the nerf... On a single day of play on a random number they chose (1%)? Shouldn't they have chosen, like, an entire week's worth and then done an average? I know it would probably not change a thing, but this way, it sounds like the change was done with very little thought given to it. It's as if they just pushed it trough Friday in an hurry to check on the weekend's result! also, that person seems to confirm the 100k theory. Still, we need to figure out how 1/2 grant goes down to as bad as 1/10. "@WideEyed: The zOMG curve kicks in a little bit at 100k, but at 150k the earnings go to 10%. Only 1% of zOMG players earn more than 150k (although if you go to the zOMG forums it seems like 110% of players earn more than 150k, sigh). It was the simplest curve we could implement for the weekend as an experiment. We'll be changing it / tweaking it over time, along with everything else" -Pan, journal comments
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:45 pm
*sigh*
Some of them are just too biased to argue with. -.-
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:08 pm
But not all of them.
Be mindful that both sides have people with unidimensional views among the lot.
And I agree, this weekend's test is going to be a bust. Not just with intentional 100k hitters, but with usual 200k+ earners gaining 0 gold out of now temporary rage for the nerf.
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:42 pm
Lawlz, look what I did:  Any mistakes? How long will it be up to date?
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:43 pm
Huh, I just read a post by Pan detailing the curve and stuff but now I can't access it.They pretty much forced this on poor sick swarf °3° It's 90% the usual Gold at 100K, not half as I've heard earlier. Resets at 0.00 GMT There's the possibility altering the shape of the curve to something less brutal. They're doing this now because they need to give out more gold to new players and intend to do so through zOMG! as part of the integration stuff. And other interesting things x D
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:59 pm
gataka Huh, I just read a post by Pan detailing the curve and stuff but now I can't access it.They pretty much forced this on poor sick swarf °3° It's 90% the usual Gold at 100K, not half as I've heard earlier. Resets at 0.00 GMT There's the possibility altering the shape of the curve to something less brutal. They're doing this now because they need to give out more gold to new players and intend to do so through zOMG! as part of the integration stuff. And other interesting things x D
Nice of you to snipe that information before it disappeared, at least. sweatdrop
It's been pretty obvious that they weren't done with the curve to begin with. One thing I do hope, though, is that they don't alter the shape as silently as they implemented the curve. I'd hate for all these people complaining to think that was actually the right way to go about getting things fixed. whee
They need a feedback thread - for feedback beyond the scope of "I like it" or "I don't", and specifically not including "Change it back!". Somewhere where people who post reasonable feedback can be heard, while all the whining the forums are filled with now can understandably fall on deaf ears. They need to establish what is acceptable feedback, so that they can get the system tweaked to a way more players would be willing to accept it.
Panagrammic had mentioned before that he'd like to bolster the gold grants early in the game, which sounded pretty appealing - hearing that it's part of integration, even more so. zOMG! is engaging enough to pull a pretty good investment out of someone just wandering by, so pushing new Gaians toward it is a good way to hook them on the site. Making it more effective in that regard only benefits... Well, everyone.
By the by, if anyone catches me back in the Forums tonight, please slap me or something. I'm going to do my best to let things cool down before I get back into discussing it, because - generally speaking - people aren't ready to be discussing it. They're ready to rant and rave, and they've got a right to it - no point trying to correct them until they're ready for it, I suppose. Heck, some of their rants are even fairly reasonable - I'd be mad, too, if I thought the developers were accusing me of something I wasn't. Raving wouldn't necessarily be my response-of-choice, but I certainly wouldn't be happy about it... sweatdrop
EDIT: Your link's working again... 3nodding
EDIT EDIT: I considered requesting a special reprieve for that last little bit of Forumgoing tonight, but if you really want to (or simply can't bear to pass up the chance) you're still free to hit me. After all, it was worth it...
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:17 pm
Red Kutai
EDIT: Your link's working again... 3nodding
EDIT EDIT: I considered requesting a special reprieve for that last little bit of Forumgoing tonight, but if you really want to (or simply can't bear to pass up the chance) you're still free to hit me. After all, it was worth it...
I'll save it up for another day. He took out the part about swarf coughing up a lung, among other tweaks x D
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:25 am
Quote: The high player on 3/6 made a bit under 1m gold with 10 sEB runs OUCH... Someone made almost a full million in a single day of zOMG! And still, 10 sEB runs would have been less than 500k. This person has been farming like crazy. Also, if 169 people got at least 150k, then that means well over 25 million were made up just that day among those. That's one quarter of what zOMG! granted, the 1% getting 25-30%, so... we have 100 million, at the very least, on a single day from zOMG! grants. Also, BG and zOMG! togheter made 80-90% of all of gaia's gold grants, as stated in the journal. If zOMG! is half of it, then BG aided with anoth 100 million. It wouldn't be such a bad guess to say at least 300 million enters circulation. Remember Valentine's? They flushed a billion and a half gold away from it. Exact number: 1,477,804,200. The amount of time it took users to create that same amount of gold is... 5 days. The event itself was around for more than 5 days. I'm aware that believing the event to be the sole gold sink is stupid, but for some reason I had hoped that when it happened, the inflation had at least reversed a bit, even if just from visible numbers. I hoped that, even if just for two days, the gold amount existing on gaia had actually decreased. And worse, an event like that is likely to drive more people to do more gold farming while it lasts. Oh well, good thing there's more gold sinks around, right? Also, it seems they intend to add BG and zOMG! specific gold sinks. I have to wonder about BG. Probably some new fish food that makes fish glow more often, new aquariums or something. zOMG's ought to be recipes [/hopeful]
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:22 pm
Quintafeira12 Quote: The high player on 3/6 made a bit under 1m gold with 10 sEB runs OUCH... Someone made almost a full million in a single day of zOMG! And still, 10 sEB runs would have been less than 500k. This person has been farming like crazy. Also, if 169 people got at least 150k, then that means well over 25 million were made up just that day among those. That's one quarter of what zOMG! granted, the 1% getting 25-30%, so... we have 100 million, at the very least, on a single day from zOMG! grants. Also, BG and zOMG! togheter made 80-90% of all of gaia's gold grants, as stated in the journal. If zOMG! is half of it, then BG aided with anoth 100 million. It wouldn't be such a bad guess to say at least 300 million enters circulation. Remember Valentine's? They flushed a billion and a half gold away from it. Exact number: 1,477,804,200. The amount of time it took users to create that same amount of gold is... 5 days. The event itself was around for more than 5 days. I'm aware that believing the event to be the sole gold sink is stupid, but for some reason I had hoped that when it happened, the inflation had at least reversed a bit, even if just from visible numbers. I hoped that, even if just for two days, the gold amount existing on gaia had actually decreased. And worse, an event like that is likely to drive more people to do more gold farming while it lasts. Oh well, good thing there's more gold sinks around, right? Also, it seems they intend to add BG and zOMG! specific gold sinks. I have to wonder about BG. Probably some new fish food that makes fish glow more often, new aquariums or something. zOMG's ought to be recipes [/hopeful]
Pan's stated before that zOMG! produces twice the gold that Booty Grab does. That would put Booty Grab more on the order of 50million, with Forum Posts (1/10th of zOMG!'s output) around 10million. If zOMG! and BG combine to equal 80% of daily production, that still leaves it predictably under the 200million mark. The Valentine's Event would've taken closer to 7 days worth of gold out of circulation, which is only nominally better, I suppose. whee
The thing is, you have to look at it objectively. That's seven days. Imagine if, for seven days, nobody made any gold. That's the effect the Event had on the economy. It may not seem like a lot in context (we're still making gold the other 358 days of the year, no?), but completely removing a week's worth of gold from ever existing? That's definitely a good show.
I'd really like the numbers for how much the Marketplace Tax pulls out of the economy every day, personally - that's the most constant, most reliable gold sink that exists today. You also get to factor in Gold Shop items (if anyone still buys those), and the various other small gold sinks in as well. The gold sink Events are really just for pulling out bulk amounts of gold, all at once - it's all these other methods that are going to keep inflation under control.
If they maintain the gold sink Event habit, doing it for Valentine's, Easter, Halloween, and Christmas, that's a month's worth of gold that's being removed from the game every year. The thing is, they're not trying to break even - they just need the influx of items to be able to keep up with the gold generated (and I theorise that the number of active Gaians plays a role, too, but I haven't figured out what, yet). What that means is that whatever items get generated in that one month are all freely pulling inflation down. Considering how many items are generated in any given month on Gaia, I can absolutely see how the gold sink Events could stand to make a very significant change in inflation - assuming they maintain the pattern...
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:40 pm
gataka Lawlz, look what I did: [AwesomePicHere] ...I love you :'D Got an excellent chuckle from seeing that <3 I think Gaia may be seeing an effect from the gold nerf already, although I'm not sure. [Link]. Thinking about it now, (despite my post somewhere in there) it seems rather soon for the nerf effects to be kicking in, in my opinion, so it may be due to the new RIG as some people have suggested. But if the zOMG & BG nerfs do have anything to do with it, that would be wonderful. Most likely there will be a lot of fluctuations in the MP though, as a lot of people have massive amounts of gold/ items that they're hoarding. So people will doubt the devs more, so there'll be more hatin'... the cycle continues gonk Pan said something about looking at the effects of the nerf over the weekend, so it'll be interesting to see if there are any changes with what's been going on, tomorrow. Poor Swarf though, hope the dude manages to hold up while they use him as a proverbial shield against all the baww'ing and hatin' there's been ._.;
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:06 pm
Beenz I think Gaia may be seeing an effect from the gold nerf already, although I'm not sure. [Link]. I was going to bring that to attention here, since you did on the forums, but you covered all bases ahead of time. I'm with the GCD on this one. Although, part of it might hold some truth, it's way, WAY to early for the nerf to have taken a practical effect. Even with what's stated above, about goldsinks and marketplace tax, i'm siding with it being a long-shot to expect such a difference made so early. I'm not sure how to back it up, as I wanted to check RIG item fluctuation for a confirmation. Since those have so much appeal, a nerf ought to affect more people after them than some other older item in the background, and the nerf's effect should be more clear. Thing is, this RIG is also too young to do that. Any price fluctuation I'd see tending down could also be from the last stage of price stabilization after introduction. Their story is likely. Not everyone spends or gains their gold in a 3 day notice, even if this was a weekend, and the price drop elsewhere can be related to the rush for this RIG, because really, after the mild disappointment of valentine's RIG, the thing is popular this month. I'm thinking that there's still a sum of existing gold circulating. But how could I be sure? I have no access to numbers! I don't know what's the refresh rate of the economy (the time it takes for the whole amount of gold site-wide to be sinked and re-granted). It could be a week, a month or even just 3 days. Until that refresh rate takes at least half a full turn, no change can really attributed to the nerf. It takes the pre-existing circulating gold to be sinked for effects to happen. Or at least that how I see it. One thing, the devs aren't going to check on how much items are costing at the end of the weekend, they're likely going to look at how much zOMG! gold was produced before, and see if it made a difference post-nerf. At least, that sounds the logical first step -The market could very well be dropping left and right after a nerf somewhere, but they still could end up verifying beforehand that users just mule'd their way to near equal gold grants as before, so the nef meant nothing on the change. I'm interested in the results tomorrow as well.
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:32 pm
Aye, too early, unless something weird is happening. I'm still wearing pants: something weird is unlikely. Red Kutai
(if anyone still buys those)
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:35 pm
gataka I'm still wearing pants: something weird is unlikely. *checks equipped item list* Uh... sweatdrop
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