|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:39 pm
Japanese_Green_Tea vegito61283 You forget completely that Bartt Star and Montana as well as P. Manning as well all had the best offenses to fall back on and including defenses that could bail you out in the end as well. Randall never had that. The Eagles teams that he was on had only adequate to sub-par at the very best teams and he elevated them to practically playoff teams where they never would have gone to the playoffs without him. That is why Randall is so much better. He did much much more with much much worse almost bottom feeding teams. None of them could or ever would be able to do that ever.
Yes, those franchises were built from scratch. Randall still came into the league with arguably the worst offense that you could have hoped. The Chiefs had a much better overall offense than the Eagles did. I remember when he played with the Chiefs and I remember that team. He did elevate that team, BUT they would have gotten there with even an above average QB instead of a ALLTIMER. Peyton had everything that you could hope for. A team that was willing to build around him and risk everything to get him the best pieces. The Eagles NEVER did that for Randall. Another thing everyone looks over and not of their own fault or volition is that he never had the Stats that Montana or Peyton ever had. They had systems built around them for the to succeed. Cunningham never did. They just added pieces hoping they would work out instead of building the offense around the capabilities of Cunningham.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:00 pm
vegito61283 Japanese_Green_Tea vegito61283 You forget completely that Bartt Star and Montana as well as P. Manning as well all had the best offenses to fall back on and including defenses that could bail you out in the end as well. Randall never had that. The Eagles teams that he was on had only adequate to sub-par at the very best teams and he elevated them to practically playoff teams where they never would have gone to the playoffs without him. That is why Randall is so much better. He did much much more with much much worse almost bottom feeding teams. None of them could or ever would be able to do that ever.
Yes, those franchises were built from scratch. Randall still came into the league with arguably the worst offense that you could have hoped. The Chiefs had a much better overall offense than the Eagles did. I remember when he played with the Chiefs and I remember that team. He did elevate that team, BUT they would have gotten there with even an above average QB instead of a ALLTIMER. Peyton had everything that you could hope for. A team that was willing to build around him and risk everything to get him the best pieces. The Eagles NEVER did that for Randall. Another thing everyone looks over and not of their own fault or volition is that he never had the Stats that Montana or Peyton ever had. They had systems built around them for the to succeed. Cunningham never did. They just added pieces hoping they would work out instead of building the offense around the capabilities of Cunningham.
Another way to look at it is by looking back at the 49ers of last year. With Mike Nolan as their head coach and J.T. O'Sullivan as their QB the team floundered and failed to surpass mediocrity. But when Singletary took over as head coach, and Shaun Hill as QB, without changing anything else, this mediocre team went from poor to respectable, winning 4 of their last 5 games, against teams with winning records and playoff potential. Because Hill and Singletary has that IT factor that can make a team play harder and rally behind them. Like a Montana and a Peyton Manning. Cunningham was a great QB, and a good leader, but I think he fails in having that capability of getting his team to rally behind him and make them play better when the chips are down. A great QB, but that seperates him from the QB's like Montana and Peyton.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:48 am
Here is the issue that you are overlooking and I failed to properly relay to you. There are teams that want someone to lead them and there are teams who are like TO. People who want what they want and dont like to work together. Philadelphia WAS EXACTLY like that when Cunningham was there. They put all their cards on the defense and the offensive players did not really care since they knew they were not going anywhere. They were basically rogues in their own rights. I remember they did not like playing together and they would constantly get into fistfights amongst themselves. Sorry, but not even a true Field General could have gotten them to work together. Plus they were only a better team because of their Defense. They had an overall worse offense than the Chiefs did. You speak of leaders and generals. Cunningham was a great general because he was the one who led his team down the field, but unfortunately you could be the best General in history, but you will still fail if your mates will not follow and go off the reservation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:37 am
vegito61283 Here is the issue that you are overlooking and I failed to properly relay to you. There are teams that want someone to lead them and there are teams who are like TO. People who want what they want and dont like to work together. Philadelphia WAS EXACTLY like that when Cunningham was there. They put all their cards on the defense and the offensive players did not really care since they knew they were not going anywhere. They were basically rogues in their own rights. I remember they did not like playing together and they would constantly get into fistfights amongst themselves. Sorry, but not even a true Field General could have gotten them to work together. Plus they were only a better team because of their Defense. They had an overall worse offense than the Chiefs did. You speak of leaders and generals. Cunningham was a great general because he was the one who led his team down the field, but unfortunately you could be the best General in history, but you will still fail if your mates will not follow and go off the reservation.
Bottom line, Cunningham was a great Quarterback, I have the utmost respect for him as a player and all he did in the NFL, but I still think it's a stretch to refer to him as the Ultimate QB.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:53 am
Did Vince Lombardi ever play?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:14 am
Japanese_Green_Tea vegito61283 Here is the issue that you are overlooking and I failed to properly relay to you. There are teams that want someone to lead them and there are teams who are like TO. People who want what they want and dont like to work together. Philadelphia WAS EXACTLY like that when Cunningham was there. They put all their cards on the defense and the offensive players did not really care since they knew they were not going anywhere. They were basically rogues in their own rights. I remember they did not like playing together and they would constantly get into fistfights amongst themselves. Sorry, but not even a true Field General could have gotten them to work together. Plus they were only a better team because of their Defense. They had an overall worse offense than the Chiefs did. You speak of leaders and generals. Cunningham was a great general because he was the one who led his team down the field, but unfortunately you could be the best General in history, but you will still fail if your mates will not follow and go off the reservation.
Bottom line, Cunningham was a great Quarterback, I have the utmost respect for him as a player and all he did in the NFL, but I still think it's a stretch to refer to him as the Ultimate QB.I see your point. I really do. One point of the ultimate part I was trying to make was that he had done all the best aspects to a QB game you want. He may not have been the best at every aspect of them, but he was capable of using every single aspect where as no other QB save for McNabb or Favre were able to even come close to. Another way you could put it was he was the COMPLETE PACKAGE. Did everything and sucked at nothing. LOL. Manning and Montana were better pocket passers, easily may have been better generals, but they could never accomplish the other aspects to the game like he did. That is why I had him the Ultimate QB. Not the best at any one certain thing, But the best at having everything into one package. Hope that helps DEFINE what I was trying to say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:59 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:25 pm
1.Jake Delhomme
2.Donovan McNabb
3.Chad Pennington
4.John Elway
5.Dan Marino
6.Warren Moon
7.Doug Williams
8.Steve Young
9.Joe Montana
10.Matt Cassel since he's in KC
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:24 am
Okay, Complete package I am more willing to agree with you on.
As for your youtube video, I remember watching that Eagles vs. Buffalo game from the last clip shown in that video, and watching that play in the end zone that Cunningham was able to complete. I thought that was one of the most awesome plays I've ever seen. brings back memories.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:26 am
Japanese_Green_Tea Okay, Complete package I am more willing to agree with you on.
As for your youtube video, I remember watching that Eagles vs. Buffalo game from the last clip shown in that video, and watching that play in the end zone that Cunningham was able to complete. I thought that was one of the most awesome plays I've ever seen. brings back memories. How far away was that throw? I could have sworn that was like almost 50yds. The best part about that was the reciever did not have to move more than an inch and the ball was neatly giftwrapped and delivered right into his hands. But the complete package is usually referred to as the the ultimate package because you really cannot get any better than that. Which with him, you really could not unless you put him on a team that had real team players and who had even a micro-cosm of true talent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:26 pm
1. Peyton Manning
2. Johnny Unitus
3. Bret Favre
4. Troy Aikman
5. Dan Marino
6. Joe Montana
7. Steve Young
8. Tom Brady9i hate this guy with a pasion but hes good so yea)
9. Eli Manning
10. Big Ben
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:09 pm
vegito61283 Japanese_Green_Tea Okay, Complete package I am more willing to agree with you on.
As for your youtube video, I remember watching that Eagles vs. Buffalo game from the last clip shown in that video, and watching that play in the end zone that Cunningham was able to complete. I thought that was one of the most awesome plays I've ever seen. brings back memories. How far away was that throw? I could have sworn that was like almost 50yds. The best part about that was the reciever did not have to move more than an inch and the ball was neatly giftwrapped and delivered right into his hands. But the complete package is usually referred to as the the ultimate package because you really cannot get any better than that. Which with him, you really could not unless you put him on a team that had real team players and who had even a micro-cosm of true talent.
If memory serves that pass was over 50 yards, because he threw that pass deep from his own endzone avoiding the safety, and completed the pass at around the 50 yard line.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:33 pm
1. Johnny Unitus 2. Joe Montana 3. John Elawy 4. Troy Aikman 5. Terry Bradsaw 6. Brett Star 7. Steve Young 8. Dan Marino (only this far down the line cuz he didnt win a ring) 9. Petyon Manning 10.Tom Brady
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:59 pm
Japanese_Green_Tea vegito61283 Japanese_Green_Tea Okay, Complete package I am more willing to agree with you on.
As for your youtube video, I remember watching that Eagles vs. Buffalo game from the last clip shown in that video, and watching that play in the end zone that Cunningham was able to complete. I thought that was one of the most awesome plays I've ever seen. brings back memories. How far away was that throw? I could have sworn that was like almost 50yds. The best part about that was the reciever did not have to move more than an inch and the ball was neatly giftwrapped and delivered right into his hands. But the complete package is usually referred to as the the ultimate package because you really cannot get any better than that. Which with him, you really could not unless you put him on a team that had real team players and who had even a micro-cosm of true talent.
If memory serves that pass was over 50 yards, because he threw that pass deep from his own endzone avoiding the safety, and completed the pass at around the 50 yard line.Something like that. And yeah, we must have a completely different definition of complete package. Here is a challenge for you, go and do some math here. Take the number of pass attempts from Montana and Peyton respecitvely. Then take the avg yards per pass for Cunningham and multiply that by the number of passes from Montana and Peyton. You might be suprised by the results.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:54 am
Dark Shaddow305 1. Johnny Unitus 2. Joe Montana 3. John Elawy 4. Troy Aikman 5. Terry Bradsaw 6. Brett Star 7. Steve Young 8. Dan Marino (only this far down the line cuz he didnt win a ring) 9. Petyon Manning 10.Tom Brady (number 6) do you mean Brett Favre or Bart Starr?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
