Ok. I'm sorry I overheard this, and please excuse me for butting in on your conversation. But I have still a little feel of responsibility for this guild. If it's because I'm one of the oldest members still here, or if it's because I was a former Crew, I don't know. But I will elaborate my opinions on the matter nonetheless.
Rivlen
Daypaw
People were throwing shitfits because your idea of a working, happy guild was vastly different from everyone elses idea of a happy, working guild. It failed because you were completely unwilling to compromise, on anything. You threw the members aside time and time again, and now they're all gone. You worked very little with me and Yami- for the most part, you were doing to us the same thing you were doing to the members. "I don't like that, so we're not doing it." We had more pull than the members, yes, but it was still always
your guild and nobody elses.
I'm not even going to argue with you about this
if that's what you remember then whatever
Daypaw
...you pretty much said yourself that the old regulars weren't worth appealing to and bringing back- that 'making the guild functional' and 'fixing the infrastructure' took priority.
At that point no. Everyone was in "riot" mode and just wanted to complain about anything and everything. That's not good for a guild. They were happy hating me and going off by themselves elsewhere so I was fine with leaving them to it if that's what they wanted. You know as well as I that for the most part they were all welcome back here. They chose to quit the guild of their own free will and I wasn't about to
continue pursuing them after trying to get them to come back. Because remember we did try more than once
A long time has passed since the turbulent time of the cataclysm in the guild, and I can see why the members went berserk. It was mainly because we were all Riv's fellow crew members until suddenly we were not. The guild had a new captain, all of the crew members were gone and changes in the guild were taking place all at once. In other words, the changes that came were pure dictatorship. Me for one, didn't like it. It took me years to get to be crew, and this guild was the only place I knew on GAIA.
This guild was like that for all of the old members. all of the regulars. all of the ones you now want back to get the guild alive again.
Well. I think no matter if the guild was the same old place it used to be, people would eventually get a life outside of gaia. It's just the way of life
wink And if people left the guild, it was because they were stubborn. This is not to be blamed on Riv.
Rivlen
Daypaw
If it means as much to you as you say, where have you been since mid 2010?
For a long time I was waiting for you and Yami to do something with the guild. Then after so many months of this guild being 100% dead I just couldn't care anymore. All my enthusiasm for revamping and revitalizing things died when everyone stopped posting and I was prepared to just leave the guild a ghost town, as it would have been had I not stepped in in the first place.
Ok Riv. Take this not as me trying to badmouth your way of thinking, but as perhaps some positive critic.
You (Excuse my language) Suck at decisionmaking-skills. The guild had maybe 8-10 members here that were willing to offer anything for this guild, who had their own hangout-threads which they visited daily, and then you had the regulars, and the not-so-regulars on top of that. In other words, the main threads kept the guild going.
Then came Riv in his Green cape, and saved the day by demoting the crew, (who also were the most active members of the guild) then removing all of the major threads, the home of the members who were the backbone of VTOG. (and since they had all been demoted, there was nothing they could do)
And then to top it all of, not being willing to rethink the plan when all opposed you. So the former crew protested, and most of them left. Taking the guild-activity with them
So instead of little but steady activity, you now have close to no activity.
So the guild is NOT better off, Riv. Just stop trying to tell yourself that.
Moral of story: If you want a functioning guild, try not to exclude the people who built it.
Rivlen
Daypaw
You abandoned us with no notice. We didn't vote you out- we asked you to
stop making decisions without us and making major changes without our knowledge- as, technically by the power system that was implemented, everything implemented needed a majority vote. That's not the same as "You're not captain anymore, gtfo." It's simply "Give us a heads up because some of the things that are changing without our prior knowledge aren't good changes."
We never told you to leave.that's 100% bullshit
*no comment*
Rivlen
Daypaw
No, we did not have leeway to do whatever we wanted. VC's are not Captains and it was still not our guild. When we were functioning without you, we were still functioning within the power system and rule set that was established before you left. We didn't make any major changes because we expected you to come back at some point. Yami had other things to worry about, and so did I. If you didn't care enough to post and tell us that you were still checking in, do you really think we cared enough to try and track you down about it? We have more important obligations than a guild that's been neglected by owner after owner after owner.
you're right
I believe I asked you not to delete old threads or ban people ("clean house") without cause
other than that you were free to run the guild however you wanted
I didn't need to check in with you
I didn't have any sayso in anything you did(n't do) so what was I needed for?
I suppose after so many months I could have just pulled gaia rank and removed you both as you've just removed me but like I said the place was a ghost town and I was fine with letting it stay dead at this point
On this point again, I thank you Riv, for the "No deletion" rule you sat.
Rivlen
Daypaw
You knew the guild was inactive. Was being inactive yourself for well over a year in it's best interest? You could have just as easily demoted everyone on the crew and found replacements who didn't care one way or the other what happened. You could have wiped the memberlist, cleared the forums, and then launched a recruiting campaign. But you didn't- you chose to leave and not come back. Maybe you were hoping that me and Yami would fix everything and you would have something spectacular to come back and claim? I don't know, I don't care. I'm not going to pretend I do. This is going to be my only post on the subject- I'm not going to let it turn into another 'shitfit' as we all have better things to be doing with our time.
yeah I was totally hoping you'd both come back after a year and make something spectacular so I could take the credit for it
are you even listening to yourself?
rolleyes anyway I agree with one thing you said
I do have better things to do with my time than argue with you
believe whatever you want dude
I for one, believe that somewhere deep within Riv, there is still a man who misses the old times, and doesn't wish to clear everything. Wouldn't it then be better to just buy a new guild?
neutral If you're broke, I'm sure we can come to an agreement?
smile I mean since you just want to clear out all of the forum?
Wouldn't it then be better to give over this guild to someone who actually treasures all of the memories in it in exchange for a new guild?
Rivlen
YamiKreuz
That being said, yes, Daypaw and I have done little for a long time now, and it is our fault in a non-negative way. What I mean is that I had much more important things to take care of, I'm sure she did as well. I'm sure Rivlen had things to deal with too.
I think you may be taking my reaction to Daypaw the wrong way
even though I think it was shitty for you guys to act like you were going to work on the guild and then just stop I'm not upset about that (grats on the job btw, Devon mentioned it awhile back although she never told me where it was)
like I just said I was fine with leaving things how they were
what pisses me off is that Daypaw comes back here after over a year and blames
me for "disappearing" when I pretty clearly remember not only leaving you guys in charge but CLEARLY informing you that I would be stepping back and letting you handle things
in fact it was what we all agreed on
so why am I taking flak after all this time for the guild being dead when it wasn't my responsibility to run it anymore?
Good point.
Rivlen
YamiKreuz
I am open to here concerns about the most recent actions though.
the only concerns I ever had were
A. a prosperous and vital VTOG
B. failing A, a clear preservation of the memories (ie shut the guild down, never delete all the old threads, etc)
?
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