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My hat is off to you. That's all I can really say.
It makes me wonder though. As you already know, it is a problem of mine.
One that I fear could have me stuck forever...
but I guess death to self is the best way to do things, but
In doing so, more than likey, I will not date ever.
you see I have an attraction to both genders, but as long as I have this in my mind I won't date either.

looks like I have work to do........

(No apologies if my sarcasm is offensive, it is made to make people think not make them feel good about themselves, as it should be.)

I would venture to say that your are being a hypocrite by giving him links for his research. You tell him he needs to research, nothing wrong with that. But you are telling him not only to research but also what and exactly where. If you are trying to make a point make it yourself and don't just drop links in and expect people to read it because it's there. And if you are telling him specifically to read those links than you are not following the reason that this thread is here. It is a debate of whether homosexuality is right or wrong, not on whether any person in particular is sinning or not by being homosexual. You have given no argument in your post, you only seem to be trying to make up someone's mind for them.

If you have an intellectual argument to give, you should give it. If not, there is no reason for your post and it is against the spirit of this thread.

As for your links.

First: There was no direct information given as to how he came across his decision, only that he claimed it was through the scriptures, which I, personally, highly doubt.

Second: Posting a link to another site with links isn't worth following the links on the page. I, as well as anyone else with a hint of sense in their head should, refuse to follow a link from a link list that leads to another link list. All it could serve to to cause more confusion about what point you are trying to make and thus making it harder for someone to come to their own conclusions.

Third: I don't know where to start. He keeps making claims that are false or only are true under his example and maybe one or two more. His discussion on arsenokoités does nothing to refute it meaning homosexuality, and instead he dances around with his prose to make it sound like he is saying something completely different. The fact is that arsenokoités has always meant homosexuality, they just described it in more than one word instead of condensing it. Trust me, I know. The KJV Bible we have today is nothing like the original, and when you look at archaic sentence structure you find that it means exactly what I said it meant before, and that is "that those who abuse their bodies with other men will not inherit the kingdom of God" and that is a paraphrase, of course. I would have to write a small novel to explain it all in a way that you would understand it, and I bet you would still have questions when I was done. Quite frankly I don't feel like that tonight because I have this throbbing toothache and writing a novel with just be too taxing at the moment. As for malakos, they author claims it has more proof that the older translation "weakling" (taking from Middle English into modern) is true and that the translation "effeminate" is part of the past fifty years of wrongful translation. In his own text he says that even the "effeminate" translation falls under the category of the newer translations, even though by his own documentation it is at most forty-eight years younger than "weakling" is. And, honestly, I found that he put in so much BS that it seemed like he was trying to convince people that there were no errors in his work, when they are standing right out in front of me. I didn't even try to see them.

Fourth: "Would Jesus Discriminate?" The answer is that no he would not. God loves every person just as much as any other. Before Man fell in the Garden, we didn't have the knowledge to know what was right and what was wrong, and it was a gift that we didn't. But we got it for ourselves, and because of that we now have a capability to know when we are doing something wrong, although you would be surprised by the amount of people that have turned off that feeling so they wouldn't be uncomfortable anymore. I know, I have been fighting for over a year to get the feeling back. Not because I want to feel bad, but because I need to. But now back to the subject on hand. Anyone who sins is going to go to Hell, no matter what their sin is. If God let someone not go to Hell for some action and made someone else go to Hell for the very same thing, then He would be guilty of discrimination. Since God is perfect, He cannot be guilty of anything, therefore He cannot discriminate. And no, I didn't watch the video. For one thing it didn't load, and for another the title itself is enough to tell me that it is BS.

Fifth: Okay, he blew a lot of hot air, but I'll try to put this together in an intellectual way. He claims that the passage from Romans 1:18-32 doesn't apply because it only deals with "The lusts spoken of are the result of godlessness and the refusal of the gospel of God."* I'm not going to say the rest because you know it well enough to throw it back at me I trust. Basically what he is getting at is that it doesn't say anything against homosexuality because it only talks about perversions of the flesh. From where I'm coming from, homosexuality is a perversion of the flesh therefore it does apply. Not a good thing to argue with if your audience even knows half of what their ammo is. The first half I skipped most of because it deals with the Old Testament and he showed that Jesus threw out the laws of the Old Testament* I can jive with that, so anything brought up from the Old Testament is automatically out the window, he didn't need to write it and I certainly didn't need to read it. And his big discussion about the Greek words and his source for it? I believe that was the third link so, if it pleases you, refer back to that section. He state, at the very beginning, that "I can, though with some difficulty, read Greek and Hebrew." He says it is with difficulty, so he has no right to give his definite opinion on this since it is completely possible that after the source for his argument it planted itself in his head and he can't shake it. Again, trust me on this, I've had enough foreign language training, modern and ancient, to know that happens more often than you would realize until your teacher makes a fool of you in class by shooting your masterpiece down (And I excel in languages, so it isn't because I'm stupid). My closing point for this last link is in response to his closing point. Satan can plant ideas in your head, especially when it is something you don't truly want to give up for Christ, and it can seem as if it came from God. I know too many people that have fallen to this ploy and lost there walk with God for years because of it.

*

I think that I'm done and I will go now before this toothache drive me insane. Btw, if you ever have a bad toothache and you can't get to a dentist for a few days get a warm, damp teabag and place it over the tooth. I didn't think it would work when my dentist office told me to do it, but I was happily surprised.

* Sarcasm deleted in an attempt to not offend anyone. Too much. For any of you who might have seen this before I took it out that is.

You've picked the wrong person to say has homophobia. I have met some perfectly delightful people who are homosexual and even some of the guys I wouldn't feel uncomfortable being in a dorm room with just because they respect the fact that I am a Christian. I am not the one reading too deep into things, what is on this page is merely response to the comments of others. Originally, all I did was post a block of scripture in its full context and I have been responding to the best of my ability to every question or comment put to me thus far. I have been trying to be polite by using my time and effort to respond to whatever comments I get because people spent the time to give them.

And I pose this question to you: How is "or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor the drunkards, nor revilers, now swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God" an obscure reference? To me that says it pretty clearly, and if you allow things from the Old Testament you have to realize that homosexuality was one of the few sins you would be killed for committing.

And why do you say we should take the Bible seriously as the word of God, but in the very same sentence you say that we should not take it word for word? If we take something seriously as the word of God we cannot omit anything from it because then we would be committing a sin by being hypocrites.

I've been reading into some past mistakes Christians have made, and I think that if you look a little closer to the historical facts you'll see that more than a few Christians were against slavery and other issues you can think of. These aren't the things that are easily found because people like to bury things that they don't agree with, and the governments wanted slavery because it was good for the economy and their own pockets.

If I got too much on a rant, good. In all honesty I am very offended that you said, without any proof, that I am homophobic. God commanded us to love every person that He has created, and I do that by the definition the Bible gives of love to the best of my ability. The fact that I am offended that you said I am homophobic proves that I have problems loving all people the way we are told we are supposed to. The thing that the English language lacks are different words to describe the word "love" and we have no way of changing that.

By your reasoning, however, there was no need for Jesus to die on the cross for our sins. People who sin all go to Hell if they are not faithful to God and ask for forgiveness and strive to live their lives for Him.

And again, just to point it out better, God did not tell us to hate anybody nor to judge them. He commanded us to love all people. He will judge everyone when they die, we are not to judge. No matter how hard you look, you will never find God hating or telling anyone else to hate anything or anyone. Any time he destroyed a man, army, city, nation or anything else it was because of their wicked ways. He still loved them but they had to be punished for that they had done.

First of all my friend the bible was not proven wrong, what I think you ment was that mens outlook on the bible was proven wrong, in which I humbly agree with you. When it says master and servent I beleive the servent was not force to stay with the master, but stayed because it best benificted to work for him than live on the streets. And the idea of women being closer to the devil is not somthing I'm familier with, but I'm sure people like the Puritans who run over woman might think that.


As the chain man said, your not taking it seriously if your going to assume it's full of metaphors. I don't think God made the bible to confuse us, but to teach us.


Thats the thing, the bible did not mention everything about how a black man cannot enter heaven and a white man is doomed to hell. Jesus died specifically to allow the gentials a passage into heaven. Racism and Sexism were wrong, though the bible has stated its the mans job to be the head of the house, and at the same time has to be the one to provide. But men alot of times wanna follow the head of the house rule and not the profiding of the family rule.


He is a God of vengence, and hates sin himself. Whats funny is when you say hate, your right. Alot of christians hate the sinner as well as the sin which is wrong. But to hate the sin and not the sinner is being like Jesus. He is a God capable of hating and a God of vengence. And like the chain man said, I also disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, but more for natural reasons than celestial, and at the same time have met a ton of awsome people who themselves are homosexual.


Agreed which is why we must treat them as such. I beleive if a person wants to be a homosexual then people must not harass them for it. Especially if that same person has no desire to follow a religion that's against it, but if you wanna to follow a faith, you have to understand that you have to follow some of the sacrafices in it, and understand that you can't alter what it says to accomidate what your beleive.


I would love to go into how I beleive it's more of a choice and less of somthing to do with the genes, but I'd rather stick with whether or not the bible beleives in it.


Gasp your right, he says hate the sin not the sinner, and distant yourself away for people who may turn you into a sinner. So your completly right, but I just wanted to make that second part clear.


The crusades also beleived there was nothing wrong with killing Muslims, but we all know thats a load. People wanna change what the bible says to accomadate with there lifestyle and don't realize if you truly wanna be a part of a faith, you have to change your lifestyle.


Good


That was just the Puritans, which to me was one of the most F-ed types of christianity that people ever cooked up. Homosexuality is somthing alot of branches beleive to be wrong.


Man said alot of crazy things to keep the businesses intact. And again that was just one group of christians not the majority.


Now this was a first. I never heard this claim before in my life. First of all are your refering to the whole bible, or just the new testament? And second don't you under stand that most of those of the ones that weren't gospels were letters written by Peter to a group of people to try and convert them. Maybe the Emperor had them combined, but he did not issue them to be written. Unless acourse you have some solid evidence.


So you beleive in this all power God of the christians and beleived he would allow mistakes to happen. Might wanna check either your faith and check and see if your being bias.


The overall message is not just about how loving God is, it's how we come to understand how allpowerful he is, what he sacraficed for us, and what we can do to become better christians. And to understand the bible as a whole your going to have to READ it word for word and not just individual parts.


I don't expect you to memerize the bible, just know that it has more meanings than, "God is so loving, so how can he hate?"


Huh if you don't know the context then how can you make that former claim.?


Sure just take out the parts you disagree with and follow the parts you do. I'm sure thats what God wants and what Jesus, Peter, Paul, and so many others died for.


He welcomes those who attone for their sins. He want look at a person who tried to be a christian, but never atoned for his sins. If a thief keeps on stealing even after he tries to be a good christian, and yet keeps stealing until he dies, he will not make it into heaven. Further more if a man denies God, but is a decent person , he will not make it into heaven. The bible claims that only a few will make it.


I agree they do not. But if that person wants to follow a faith thats against it, then he must not be persecuted, but helped to understand. If a person does not, he I think he should be left alone to live his life how he sees fit to live it.


I agree whole heartedly. We are all sinners, now what people do about their sinful ways is between them and God.


Acourse what I said is my opinion as well. I do feel the need to say thing since I don't think I've seen you, but I am not a christian myself, bur have been bought up in the church. I believe if your going to follow somthing you go all the way and the same goes for religion. I do not think homosexuality hurts anyone thats why I beleive it should be legal for homosexuals to have a governmental marriage so they both can get the benifits of a straight married couple, but I also beleive the bible speaks against it as well as it does against murder, lieing, cheating, and stealing.

Actually your in Japi's guild right? You from Corpus?

Off topic, once again

Woah Bro your Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori was banned? Why?

I know many homosexuals. Some are Christian, some aren't. However, every single one of them has told me that it was not a choice that made them homosexual. Whatever it was, it was not something they wanted. Tell me, why would someone choose to be persecuted? Why would someone choose to live a live where they're constantly going to be insulted and hurt? I can think of no good reason to choose to be gay. My best friend in the world is a lesbian. I've seen the way people look at her. I've seen the hurt they've caused her. I've seen her look at me crying and ask, "Why couldn't I have been born straight?" It's not a choice. It's something that is forced upon them. Sometimes they are able to take it and even come to appreciate it, but all to often, because of people who tell them things like that they're going to hell or that God has rejected them or that their sexuality is a choice, it becomes a curse.