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 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:20 pm
MANNOWAR nice try... what about converts- there even more jewish than we are because they chose Judaism we were born in to it says who?
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:22 pm
darkphoenix1247 Lady Pocky Alright. Where do I begin? What you, and by this, I mean everyone who has posted here, are all mainly describing, is a world in which I am constantly immersed in, and it is NOT something I enjoy. It is this atmosphere, this "saying your Jewish" that leaves me sad and a little angry. All last year I had to watch a kid in my school who wore a Kippa during lunch, give in to pressure and start making fun of his heritage. You know what he did? People would toss quarters on the ground and he would literally dive head-first into the floor to get them. He did it, he said, "Because he was a Jew." It is this atmosphere, where I am laughed at because I want to go to Shul every Shabbat evening and cry when I can't go due to mandatory chorus rehearsals. It makes me livid, when I hear the people I know are Jewish in my school make fun of their religion. In my book, "Just because you're a Jew" doesn't make it "alright" to tell anti-semetic jokes. There has been a lot of focus, in this topic, on the Jews who claim to be Jewish and yet they don't go to Shul, or they don't follow the Torah, or that they go to Church too. But one thing I want to bring up are the kids who I've been in Hebrew School with all my years and yet they don't get anything out of it. They are there because their parents want them to. All they do is sit and complain about how "boring" discussing what certain passages of the Torah are about. I mean, my GOSH if you won't respect your religion, don't disrespect it in the synogauge, and if you dislike it, DON'T COME. Sorry if this has seemed mean, I just get miffed when I come across people like that. Oh, and don't get me wrong, not ALL the Jews where I live are like that. Two of my best friends are usually sitting right next to me in Shul as often as we can go and welove to listen to our Rabbi and discuss the portions. There are just some other kids around where I live... well, I've already explained the situation. Eheh. Alright, I'm done with my little rant. You can all come out from hiding now! XD No, you make a lot of sense, and I agree. I really hate this kid who goes to my school, who makes his Judaism into some kind of a symbol that he can mock- anybody who knows him knows he is Jewish, and sees how he is. They thus base their judgements off of him, which I don't like as well. Very well said. 3nodding do you ever find something so tragically ironic you don't know whether to laugh or cry?
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:08 pm
ZonkotheSane darkphoenix1247 Lady Pocky Alright. Where do I begin? What you, and by this, I mean everyone who has posted here, are all mainly describing, is a world in which I am constantly immersed in, and it is NOT something I enjoy. It is this atmosphere, this "saying your Jewish" that leaves me sad and a little angry. All last year I had to watch a kid in my school who wore a Kippa during lunch, give in to pressure and start making fun of his heritage. You know what he did? People would toss quarters on the ground and he would literally dive head-first into the floor to get them. He did it, he said, "Because he was a Jew." It is this atmosphere, where I am laughed at because I want to go to Shul every Shabbat evening and cry when I can't go due to mandatory chorus rehearsals. It makes me livid, when I hear the people I know are Jewish in my school make fun of their religion. In my book, "Just because you're a Jew" doesn't make it "alright" to tell anti-semetic jokes. There has been a lot of focus, in this topic, on the Jews who claim to be Jewish and yet they don't go to Shul, or they don't follow the Torah, or that they go to Church too. But one thing I want to bring up are the kids who I've been in Hebrew School with all my years and yet they don't get anything out of it. They are there because their parents want them to. All they do is sit and complain about how "boring" discussing what certain passages of the Torah are about. I mean, my GOSH if you won't respect your religion, don't disrespect it in the synogauge, and if you dislike it, DON'T COME. Sorry if this has seemed mean, I just get miffed when I come across people like that. Oh, and don't get me wrong, not ALL the Jews where I live are like that. Two of my best friends are usually sitting right next to me in Shul as often as we can go and welove to listen to our Rabbi and discuss the portions. There are just some other kids around where I live... well, I've already explained the situation. Eheh. Alright, I'm done with my little rant. You can all come out from hiding now! XD No, you make a lot of sense, and I agree. I really hate this kid who goes to my school, who makes his Judaism into some kind of a symbol that he can mock- anybody who knows him knows he is Jewish, and sees how he is. They thus base their judgements off of him, which I don't like as well. Very well said. 3nodding do you ever find something so tragically ironic you don't know whether to laugh or cry? Yes, Yes I have. Point being?
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:37 pm
Cut down those evil quote trees, please! 3nodding blaugh
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:31 pm
ZonkotheSane MANNOWAR nice try... what about converts- there even more jewish than we are because they chose Judaism we were born in to it says who?
It really sucks not being brought up Jewish -- think about it. You're constantly being scrutinized (even though I like going to shul, I feel like an infiltrator), and even if it turns out you have ancestry and can prove your ancestry, there are some Jews who will never accept you as being truly Jewish, and that sucks. I (and others like me) can't help it if my mom's family lapsed several generations ago. In many cases, it was necessary to survive.
Put it this way, would you really take the path of conversion, knowing that your family would disapprove, your friends would think you're delusional, and that Jews in the community would be hesitant to accept you? You're stuck in a perpetual state of limbo because you're pursuing the religious and cultural path that you know in your heart is right, that you believe in enough to endure opposition, yet you also know you'll probably never be fully accepted by everyone who's Jewish in your lifetime.
Then you still have to play the whole "who's more Jewish?" game with people, and you still get to deal with anti-Semitism. (I've been dealing with that since before my decision to convert, seriously. Just goes to show you that even if you denounce the Jewish religion, you're still a Jew, and you'll still get s**t on for it. Just look at the Dreyfuss Affair in the 19th century.)
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:07 am
roothands ZonkotheSane MANNOWAR nice try... what about converts- there even more jewish than we are because they chose Judaism we were born in to it says who?
It really sucks not being brought up Jewish -- think about it. You're constantly being scrutinized (even though I like going to shul, I feel like an infiltrator), and even if it turns out you have ancestry and can prove your ancestry, there are some Jews who will never accept you as being truly Jewish, and that sucks. I (and others like me) can't help it if my mom's family lapsed several generations ago. In many cases, it was necessary to survive.
Put it this way, would you really take the path of conversion, knowing that your family would disapprove, your friends would think you're delusional, and that Jews in the community would be hesitant to accept you? You're stuck in a perpetual state of limbo because you're pursuing the religious and cultural path that you know in your heart is right, that you believe in enough to endure opposition, yet you also know you'll probably never be fully accepted by everyone who's Jewish in your lifetime.
Then you still have to play the whole "who's more Jewish?" game with people, and you still get to deal with anti-Semitism. (I've been dealing with that since before my decision to convert, seriously. Just goes to show you that even if you denounce the Jewish religion, you're still a Jew, and you'll still get s**t on for it. Just look at the Dreyfuss Affair in the 19th century.)you said it yourself: Quote: Well, think about it. It takes a lot of guts to convert, considering you have to start later in the game. Doesn't make you more religious or observant than born Jews, but it does show some degree of devotion to the religion and its culture. there's no such thing as being "more jewish". what i think was meant is that converts are more praiseworthy, because they make a conscious decision, as aopposed to us who are simply born into it. this doesn't make them any "more jewish", nor does it alone afford any merit. the differance between 8 and -4 is greater than the differance between 8 and 0. it's all about personal progress.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:18 pm
ZonkotheSane there's no such thing as being "more jewish". what i think was meant is that converts are more praiseworthy, because they make a conscious decision, as aopposed to us who are simply born into it. this doesn't make them any "more jewish", nor does it alone afford any merit.. Yeah. I can understand that we make a decision to be Jewish as opposed to everyone else...but being a potential convert, it sort of makes me feel less Jewish really. I shouldn't feel that way, but I can't help but think how important the 13 years of learning I missed is some how making me inferior. *Shrugs*
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:43 pm
kingpinsqeezels ZonkotheSane there's no such thing as being "more jewish". what i think was meant is that converts are more praiseworthy, because they make a conscious decision, as aopposed to us who are simply born into it. this doesn't make them any "more jewish", nor does it alone afford any merit.. Yeah. I can understand that we make a decision to be Jewish as opposed to everyone else...but being a potential convert, it sort of makes me feel less Jewish really. I shouldn't feel that way, but I can't help but think how important the 13 years of learning I missed is some how making me inferior. *Shrugs* trust me, no one does much during childhood anyway. it's mostly just character building, and i think you're ok. besides, i'm pretty sure the record starts clean by conversion. could be age 12.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:54 pm
ZonkotheSane kingpinsqeezels ZonkotheSane there's no such thing as being "more jewish". what i think was meant is that converts are more praiseworthy, because they make a conscious decision, as aopposed to us who are simply born into it. this doesn't make them any "more jewish", nor does it alone afford any merit.. Yeah. I can understand that we make a decision to be Jewish as opposed to everyone else...but being a potential convert, it sort of makes me feel less Jewish really. I shouldn't feel that way, but I can't help but think how important the 13 years of learning I missed is some how making me inferior. *Shrugs* trust me, no one does much during childhood anyway. it's mostly just character building, and i think you're ok. besides, i'm pretty sure the record starts clean by conversion. could be age 12. Yeah but still. There's a lot of learning still. I don't know the Torah or the commandments or...Hebrew. I just like bagles! crying Kidding. I guess I just feel like it's different to be raised in a religious setting where you are taught things like I was taught when I was a good little Christian girl. I dunno, maybe it's harder to explain than that.
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:04 pm
kingpinsqeezels I guess I just feel like it's different to be raised in a religious setting where you are taught things like I was taught when I was a good little Christian girl. I dunno, maybe it's harder to explain than that. nope, that's about it.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:23 pm
kingpinsqeezels Yeah but still. There's a lot of learning still. I don't know the Torah or the commandments or...Hebrew. I just like bagles! crying Kidding. I guess I just feel like it's different to be raised in a religious setting where you are taught things like I was taught when I was a good little Christian girl. I dunno, maybe it's harder to explain than that. Should make it feel more rewarding in the end, though. 3nodding Good luck, and you're already on the right track. ^^
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:06 pm
So uh... does anyone know how to do their own geneaology?
I really need to do this before I start my conversion. I don't know my great-great grandmother's maiden name (the census for my great-grandparents says "Susie and Frederick West"), so I'm sort of at a roadblock. She's the relative that supposedly immigrated to the United States (Texas) from France.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:35 am
roothands So uh... does anyone know how to do their own geneaology?
I really need to do this before I start my conversion. I don't know my great-great grandmother's maiden name (the census for my great-grandparents says "Susie and Frederick West"), so I'm sort of at a roadblock. She's the relative that supposedly immigrated to the United States (Texas) from France. it's supposed to be near-impossible to build one's genealogy from nothing. best just to err on the side of caution, i think.
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:29 pm
Lady Pocky Alright. Where do I begin? What you, and by this, I mean everyone who has posted here, are all mainly describing, is a world in which I am constantly immersed in, and it is NOT something I enjoy. It is this atmosphere, this "saying your Jewish" that leaves me sad and a little angry. All last year I had to watch a kid in my school who wore a Kippa during lunch, give in to pressure and start making fun of his heritage. You know what he did? People would toss quarters on the ground and he would literally dive head-first into the floor to get them. He did it, he said, "Because he was a Jew." It is this atmosphere, where I am laughed at because I want to go to Shul every Shabbat evening and cry when I can't go due to mandatory chorus rehearsals. It makes me livid, when I hear the people I know are Jewish in my school make fun of their religion. In my book, "Just because you're a Jew" doesn't make it "alright" to tell anti-semetic jokes. There has been a lot of focus, in this topic, on the Jews who claim to be Jewish and yet they don't go to Shul, or they don't follow the Torah, or that they go to Church too. But one thing I want to bring up are the kids who I've been in Hebrew School with all my years and yet they don't get anything out of it. They are there because their parents want them to. All they do is sit and complain about how "boring" discussing what certain passages of the Torah are about. I mean, my GOSH if you won't respect your religion, don't disrespect it in the synogauge, and if you dislike it, DON'T COME. Sorry if this has seemed mean, I just get miffed when I come across people like that. Oh, and don't get me wrong, not ALL the Jews where I live are like that. Two of my best friends are usually sitting right next to me in Shul as often as we can go and welove to listen to our Rabbi and discuss the portions. There are just some other kids around where I live... well, I've already explained the situation. Eheh. Alright, I'm done with my little rant. You can all come out from hiding now! XD Yashar koah! Well said 3nodding
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