|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:17 pm
Grayed steffi_is_hot1313 I am a new member and so far i have been reading over some of the messages and i have been getting the fealing that a lot of people feel that homosexuality is an unforgivable sin. i have heard one preson say that "love" between 2 gay people is not real love but lust. but i have a confession. i am not only a christian but i am gay myself. I have a girlfriend and she is christian! We do not do anything you would call "lustful". We may hold hands on occasion and yes we do kiss but we are still christians. It even says in the bible that the only sin that can not be forgiven is not believing that Christ is the saivor. Well...that is what my church teaches. If you went and killed someone God would still forgive you. So why do you think it so horrible that girls will be with girls? Or men with men??? i may be crossing the line on this guild i dont know but i need my voice to be heard. there is much more that i wish to say but if i did this post would be about three miles long. so i am going to end with these words:You can judge me for my life choices and every thing i ever do. it is not your judgement that matters to me. the only judgement i care about is Gods. I am truly grateful that you shared this with us, even though there has been hostility and judgement. Thank you. im a very outspoken person. when i hear something that i feel strongly about i let it out.i dont hide anything i mean, why should i ?just because some people will think im weird or strange or whatever doesnt mean i should hide who i really am.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:19 pm
The problem here is that a lot of people here think that they're better because they're straight. We are all equal and God loves us all equally. Many Christians state that homosexuality is a sin, and that they should turn from it, but gays cannot turn straight anymore than a straight person can turn gay. Then come those who say, "Oh no being gay is not bad, it's just the gay acts that are a sin." Well I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the Bible it says that when you think something it's just as bad as actually doing it (i.e. if you think about killing someone, its like actually murdering, or if you lust after someone then you have committed adultery in your heart - something like that). Well then does this mean that even if gays would stop doing homosexual acts that they will still be condemned for thinking something when they see someone they are attracted to? And for those "in the NT it says that they gave up the natural relations and burned with lust for eachother" people, well gays don't like the opposite gender to begin with. If it is natural for a certain girl to like boys (and she has for her whole life) and then she starts liking girls out of no where, then I understand and this passage must be geared toward her. But if that girl has liked girls for her whole life, wouldn't it be unnatural for her to start liking men? Wouldn't that be a sin? If you disagree, then this must mean that you are a straight person who can choose your sexual preference at will. And I commend you, because I sure know I can't.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:05 pm
OMG its Luisito Well then does this mean that even if gays would stop doing homosexual acts that they will still be condemned for thinking something when they see someone they are attracted to? There is nothing against those who feel attracted to the opposite or same sex. However the issue would be the act of lust, which can be practiced in the mind. OMG its Luisito And for those "in the NT it says that they gave up the natural relations and burned with lust for eachother" people, well gays don't like the opposite gender to begin with. If it is natural for a certain girl to like boys (and she has for her whole life) and then she starts liking girls out of no where, then I understand and this passage must be geared toward her. But if that girl has liked girls for her whole life, wouldn't it be unnatural for her to start liking men? Wouldn't that be a sin? It seems to me that you are taking the terms "natural" and "unnatural" very loosely which is bad exegesis. Here is a quote from Dr. Walter Kaiser Jr. who explains the issue of exegesis in Romans 1:26-27. "Strict attention must be paid to the Bible's own definition of its terms as found in context. To often there is an easy substitution of contemporary values for these terms. For example, some interpreters have wanted to build a Biblical case for homosexuality and have taken Paul's term natural in Romans 1:26-27 to mean sexual relations which are "natural" for an individual given his biological makeup, earlier experiences, and orientation to life. But Paul is using "natural" in corporate and moral terms; he is not thinking of distinctive, individual (and degenerate) natures. The source of such readjustments to the text is the behavioral sciences and modern ideologies, not the text itself."Source: (Toward An Exegetical Theology by Walter C. Kaiser Jr. pg.120) OMG its Luisito If you disagree, then this must mean that you are a straight person who can choose your sexual preference at will. That's a poor argument.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:14 pm
I also wanted to say that both straight and homosexual struggle on the same issues (lust and sex). The only difference is that heterosexual people can marry. We all have committed some type of sexual sin. Knowledge and repentance is key.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:55 pm
Baptist Holman There is nothing against those who feel attracted to the opposite or same sex. However the issue would be the act of lust, which can be practiced in the mind. That's exactly what I'm saying. Baptist Holman But Paul is using "natural" in corporate and moral terms; he is not thinking of distinctive, individual (and degenerate) natures. You can't prove this, because you aren't Paul, so you can't possibly know what he was thinking, or rather what God was thinking, since what he wrote was inspired by God. It's not a poor argument. Tons of people are always saying that homosexuality is a choice. What I was trying to say is that the people who use this argument must have the ability to change their sexuality at will, because if not they'd be contradicting their statement. And it's also not a poor argument when it goes with my whole "natural, unnatural" argument. Because if in the Bible it's talking about what's natural to the individual, then it would be unnatural for the homosexual to have sexual relations with a person of the opposite gender. Either way, there is no way of knowing which kind of natural Paul was writing about, so tough tootsies. lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:06 pm
Baptist Holman I also wanted to say that both straight and homosexual struggle on the same issues (lust and sex). The only difference is that heterosexual people can marry. We all have committed some type of sexual sin. Knowledge and repentance is key. I believe that the whole "Homosexuality isn't wrong, it's homosexual acts that are wrong" theory is flawed. It seems to me that it would be rather idiotic to say that having homosexual feelings isn't sinful as long as you don't lust or act upon your thoughts. I don't know why anyone pushes this theory, because I doubt God thinks, "Ok I made you gay, so it's ok to be gay, as long as you don't have sex or think perverted thoughts!" Why would God torture anyone this way? It would also be quite pointless to repent all your life for the same sin every day(in this case, lustful thoughts for a celibate homosexual), because God doesn't want us to continue committing the same sins. We aren't perfect, but when you are close to God you can work toward committing sins less (like lying, and stealing) till the point where you don't do it, but I don't believe that people can actually be celibate without thinking pervertedly and becoming restless when seeing someone they're attracted to. Hence all the scandals in the catholic church about priests molesting little boys. The only one who could achieve this celibacy (without the perverted thoughts thing) was Jesus, but this is because he is the perfect son of God, so let's not even go there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:33 pm
OMG its Luisito Baptist Holman But Paul is using "natural" in corporate and moral terms; he is not thinking of distinctive, individual (and degenerate) natures. You can't prove this, because you aren't Paul, so you can't possibly know what he was thinking, or rather what God was thinking, since what he wrote was inspired by God. *sigh* I suggest you read Mark Kinzer's "Misunderstandings of Scripture's Ethical Teaching" before you make "you can't prove this" statement. This subject has been researched quite heavy so I expect you to do your part in researching. OMG its Luisito It's not a poor argument. Tons of people are always saying that homosexuality is a choice. What I was trying to say is that the people who use this argument must have the ability to change their sexuality at will, because if not they'd be contradicting their statement. And it's also not a poor argument when it goes with my whole "natural, unnatural" argument. Because if in the Bible it's talking about what's natural to the individual, then it would be unnatural for the homosexual to have sexual relations with a person of the opposite gender. Either way, there is no way of knowing which kind of natural Paul was writing about, so tough tootsies. lol First of all, I know few homosexuals personally who choose to be homosexuals. There has been studies that homosexuality can be caused by a mental illness. There are people who cant help feeling attracted to the same-sex. Second, you are using behavioral and modern ideologies for your interpretation. There are other theological ways to prove homosexual acts are sinful, such as systematic theology of marriage. Your argument is not a new one nor to other scholars. Its simply wine and cheese exegesis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:44 pm
OMG its Luisito I don't know why anyone pushes this theory, because I doubt God thinks, "Ok I made you gay, so it's ok to be gay, as long as you don't have sex or think perverted thoughts!" Why would God torture anyone this way? Hold it. I think you are referring to my "theory" and I do not support that God created someone homosexual. That is totally bogus. OMG its Luisito It would also be quite pointless to repent all your life for the same sin every day(in this case, lustful thoughts for a celibate homosexual), because God doesn't want us to continue committing the same sins. We aren't perfect, but when you are close to God you can work toward committing sins less (like lying, and stealing) till the point where you don't do it, but I don't believe that people can actually be celibate without thinking pervertedly and becoming restless when seeing someone they're attracted to. Hence all the scandals in the catholic church about priests molesting little boys. The only one who could achieve this celibacy (without the perverted thoughts thing) was Jesus, but this is because he is the perfect son of God, so let's not even go there. Your forgetting Paul. Future Reminder: I don't suggest compromising scripture because how one feels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:49 pm
Dude just read Ananel's essay.
kthnxbye.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 7:47 am
OMG its Luisito Dude just read Ananel's essay. I have. Ananel follows the Liberal scholars who criticize about bits of the Greek vocabulary and its sources. Ananel has stated himself that he is unorthodox and he also believes that same-sex marriage is acceptable in the Bible. Ananel's thesis is what Ananel believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof. I have seen many Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses who create arguments with bad exegesis. Truth this some people will abuse the Bible and I believe Ananel is one of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:20 am
Baptist Holman OMG its Luisito Dude just read Ananel's essay. Ananel's thesis is what Ananel believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof. This just proves what I was saying about your information from "Toward An Exegetical Theology by Walter C. Kaiser Jr". This is what he believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:32 am
OMG its Luisito Baptist Holman OMG its Luisito Dude just read Ananel's essay. Ananel's thesis is what Ananel believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof. This just proves what I was saying about your information from "Toward An Exegetical Theology by Walter C. Kaiser Jr". This is what he believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof. Walter C. Kaiser is professor in Christian theology, which makes him FAR more creditable than Ananel. It has been shown before that Ananel's thesis is incorrect but many (like you) and Ananel reject the correction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:40 pm
Baptist Holman OMG its Luisito Baptist Holman OMG its Luisito Dude just read Ananel's essay. Ananel's thesis is what Ananel believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof. This just proves what I was saying about your information from "Toward An Exegetical Theology by Walter C. Kaiser Jr". This is what he believes to be correct but it does not mean its accurate or full proof. Walter C. Kaiser is professor in Christian theology, which makes him FAR more creditable than Ananel. It has been shown before that Ananel's thesis is incorrect but many (like you) and Ananel reject the correction. You still haven't shown me a reason why it's incorrect. Plus, when it comes to religion and the bible, no one will ever be right, because it all comes down to how one interprets it and one's opinion on it. So this means that even a professor in Christian theology could be wrong, even though many fanboys (like you) insist he cannot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 1:43 pm
OMG its Luisito You still haven't shown me a reason why it's incorrect. Jedediah has already shown how Ananel's thesis can be incorrect in the beginning of this topic. OMG its Luisito Plus, when it comes to religion and the bible, no one will ever be right, because it all comes down to how one interprets it and one's opinion on it. So this means that even a professor in Christian theology could be wrong, even though many fanboys (like you) insist he cannot. Thanks for the opinion. Now you're just wasting my time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 2:09 pm
Baptist Holman Jedediah has already shown how Ananel's thesis can be incorrect in the beginning of this topic. No Jebediah stated his opinions of why he disagreed with Ananel's thesis, which were clearly disproved by Tangled up in Blue and Sinner. The only reason why you think he has shown this is because you agree with him. But everything he said was refuted, because everything he stated was pure opinion with nothing to back him up. Baptist Holman Thanks for the opinion. Now you're just wasting my time. I could say the same to you, as everything you've said has been based on biggotry and not the Bible. Oh sorry, I also forgot you used a book written by a credible Christian theologist. And he has to be credible, because he has no opinion whatsoever, and he is perfect, so he probably isn't biased against homosexuals either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
