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Liberal Conversationalist
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:29 pm
MercifulShahrazad Young Integra x Alucard is hardly crack. In the Original Anime Alucard is obsessed in a sexual way with YOUNG Integra. To him, she never grew up, and turns Seras Victoria into a vampire because her eyes reminded him to young Integra's according to Studio Gonzo statement. In the Manga, Y Integra romantizes the image of the savior (would be Alucard) as the knight in shining armor (the love interest of a maiden in distress like she was). Alucard plays along. Maybe in the OVA... in the Manga and Original Anime is more canon than most relationships out there (except PipxSeras). She's "too young" to be hit on (as she actually was in the OA) or to have romantic thoughts about her savior (as she canonically did in the manga), I don't think so. Alucard doesn't go for body, but for spirit, everybody's too young for him and girls of Integra's age were married in his time. Besides one of the things Integra hates? Is to be called a little girl. No little girl has to run an organization or be a member of the 12 Conventions. It's dramatic, but she becomes a woman when she pulls the trigger to kill Richard. Personally, I don't believe that the creators of the anime should have any say in the pairings. I mean, I recognize that they added their own touches into the series, but that doesn't make it their original work. They took someone else's characters and animated them and gave them some new lines. They didn't create Hellsing; they just sorta borrowed it. To me, that seems like making a new cartoon version of Snow White and having her fall in love with one of the seven dwarves. Sorry if I sounded like a b!tch when I said that; I'm just trying to say that I'm not sure how much acknowledgment the opinions of Studio Gonzo deserves.
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:58 pm
I will respectfully argue that by saying that the anime is simply an alternate canon.
Yes, it isn't Hirano's work, but I think it should be judged separately from the manga.
So anything the anime says about characters relationships is just fine, as long as it's reserved for the anime alone, and not brought into discussion of the manga.
(*glances up at Insignificant Observer* By the way, I noticed you like Godchild. Yes, another fan of that series who's actually literate. *random happy dance before glomping you*)
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:31 pm
Inu of Baskerville Josafat Inu of Baskerville I have been thinking..xD Do you know what would be a really BAD CRACK YAOI pairing? The person to come up with it would have to be on crack..or something or other... MaxwellxOld Walter XD Just through that up there to see people's reactions. *climbs into a bomb shelter* ninja
xp
That's not a crack pairing rolleyes Lemme guess. That's not an illegible pairing? XD I'm not on anything. Heh. I wanted to see people's reactions. >_> ninja
It is a crack pairing xp
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Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:11 pm
Suni moon So anything the anime says about characters relationships is just fine, as long as it's reserved for the anime alone, and not brought into discussion of the manga. Exactly. What stands for Anime stands for Anime. Anime canon is Anime canon. Furthermore, I also pointed out an example of the Manga.
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Liberal Conversationalist
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:23 pm
Suni moon I will respectfully argue that by saying that the anime is simply an alternate canon. Yes, it isn't Hirano's work, but I think it should be judged separately from the manga. So anything the anime says about characters relationships is just fine, as long as it's reserved for the anime alone, and not brought into discussion of the manga. (*glances up at Insignificant Observer* By the way, I noticed you like Godchild. Yes, another fan of that series who's actually literate. *random happy dance before glomping you*)Well, I agree there, but I'm honestly not sure where I stand on anime canons in situations where the manga is more complete and makes better sense after a point.
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:44 pm
think of the original anime as a fanfic of hellsing the manga, a really, really WEIRD naked-purple-man filled fanfic that hirano had little to nothing to do with except putting his cut of the cash into his pocket once the show existed.
the OVA however is HIS. it remains mostly faithful to the manga in it's entirety, with a vew variances here and there that were necessary to make the story play better animated. he does keep an eye on the making of the OVAs.
does that help define the differences? OA canon is entirely seperate from OVA/Manga canon because essentially they are like two parallel worlds. the same chars, but entirely different situations.
oh, and random happy crack moment:
Schro and Captain. ^_^ heart
because cats and dogs should play together more often. 3nodding
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:18 pm
michigami oh, and random happy crack moment: Schro and Captain. ^_^ heart because cats and dogs should play together more often. 3nodding The sad thing is, my friend Gren ships that pairing seriously. XD She doesn't even really like Hellsing, but when she saw Schro she freaked. She thought Schro was hot.... O_o and then she saw Captain. ...The yaoi fangirl inside her causes her to automatically look for more hot guys to ship with hot guys. It's the way her brain works. Before I could say anything she was on her computer trying to find ANY CaptainxSchro she could get her hands on. neutral
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:47 pm
Suni moon michigami oh, and random happy crack moment: Schro and Captain. ^_^ heart because cats and dogs should play together more often. 3nodding The sad thing is, my friend Gren ships that pairing seriously. XD She doesn't even really like Hellsing, but when she saw Schro she freaked. She thought Schro was hot.... O_o and then she saw Captain. ...The yaoi fangirl inside her causes her to automatically look for more hot guys to ship with hot guys. It's the way her brain works. Before I could say anything she was on her computer trying to find ANY CaptainxSchro she could get her hands on. neutral Yeah... I dunno, I just don't see it. Ja, they look cute together in the same room, as cat and dog, or just as comrads (Schro loosing his book and the Captain lending his was just too cute heart ). But Schrodinger is a little kid... And the Captain is a full grown man...ish ("Beef Cake" as my sister calls him xd )... And to me, to put those two together like that is... like... ew. Am I right?
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:03 pm
It's shota, That's what it is.
D;
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:52 pm
OVA canon should never be put as the same as Manga canon either. The same person who did the TV series colors his versions in the OVA and this shows since the beginning.
If you don't learn how to difference the canons as they are, then you have a problem. The OVA isn't Hirano's work, he's not as involved as you think as well. The same person who produced the Anime produced the OVA.
Take Alucard x young Integra as example, in the OVA is crack. But in both, Anime and Manga, have sexual (OA) and romantic (Manga) subtext that in the OVA lacks.
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:48 pm
I'll counter that, honey. >_> Unlike the OA, Hirano has a little monitoring power over the OVA, that is, at least this time he has abit more control over what the hell they're doing to his work. It is not HIS, exactly, but it follows the manga storyline. The only things in it different from the manga are things that have been cut, and anything that's been added hasn't been important enough to alter the storyline. The OA can be considered an alternate universe canon, the OVA is pretty much a new animation that follows the manga. Until it somehow gets drastically off course and tosses in a naked purple thing, I think it's safe to say that its basically the same. I'm not trying to say that they are EXACTLY the same, buuuuuuut.... Quote: If you don't learn how to difference the canons as they are, then you have a problem. Excuse me? Not to be rude, but I think that was abit out of line; Nobody here failed to differentiate the multiple Hellsing canons. What you've stated really, in my opinion, jumped the fence and twisted the words in Miche's last post. Sorry, but that just felt a little harsh and inaccurate. I think you may have been trying abit too hard to spot an error in that last post. =/ I'm REALLY sorry, I don't mean to come off as some super b***h from hell, but I just think that you misread that... =/
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:18 pm
Hirano said in his interviews he wasn't involved too much with the animation production. Sometimes they consulted him. That was all. Furthermore, in several ocassions, he admitted he thought anime and the source work must be different. The guy is lazy with his job, do you honestly think he'll overwork with other people's job? OVA =/= Manga. It's an adaptation. Nothing more. I think it's a mediocre one, truth to be told and I disagree in many additions or changes. Madhouse has apparently taken over and probably fired everybody. Perhaps I would have one more acceptable piece in next episode as a Madhouse fan I am. Unless it's a word by word, frame by frame, copy directed and written BY Hirano. It's NOT his work. It's Ueda's. Think The Lord of the Rings movies. Nobody kid themselves it was TOLKIEN'S vision, it was Peter Jackson's. They followed the storyline and made changes to fit his interpretation of the source. In every adaptation you don't get what Hirano wanted, but what the producer and director interpret from it. That's how it goes all the time. To each their own, I know many adore the OVA but I loathe it and I don't like to see it compared with the Manga because I like the Manga. Just like many dislike thinking the OA in same terms of the Manga. Thus why we must learn to split canons: michigami does that help define the differences? OA canon is entirely seperate from OVA/Manga canon because essentially they are like two parallel worlds. the same chars, but entirely different situations. This above? My response wasn't out line at all. It's just another world and you can't make it sound like the same. If you try to place it all together, you have differences of characterizations (Seras herself: she's terrified from Alucard in the Manga, more comic relief-like and less developed while she's pure fanservice - her suit for the funeral changing into a dress? why?-, more clingy, etc on the OVA. Young Integra's personality wasn't like the Manga either, she's more "badass" like her OA counterpart. Why is this? Because Ueda, same guy who made the OA, has that vision on them that Hirano does not portrayed) and events. It happens in different universes. The OVA isn't Kohta Hirano's brainchild. I'm simply tired that fans keep saying is the same or quote it as the ultimate example as Hellsing. I wish they would learn how to difference adaptations and stop saying "OVA/Manga" universe because Manga happened different from the OVA. Hirano told us the original story IN the Manga. OVA isn't as Manga canon as the OA (that many can quote have unusual "coincidences" of events that are alike what happens now in the Manga, but different circumstances and actors). This goes in general, I'm not singling out anybody in this forum, it's a general attitude of this fandom that personally disturbs me. Other fandoms seem aware that sources adaptions, alike as they are, aren't the original universe and mark it as such. I don't know why Hellsing fans have this difficulty. Tl;dr: Manga canon isn't OVA canon and isn't OA canon.
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:33 pm
All right guys, don't you think you're getting a little bent out of shape over something that's a little unnecessary? In the grand scheme of life, does it really matter if a few people in the world think that two two-dimensional characters have the hots for each other or not? Hellsing is in its purest form a comic and a cartoon; it is not worth fussing and fighting over. Now may we please agree to disagree and move on?
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:39 pm
...We're not talking about that. But that OVA, Manga and OA must be regarded as separate canons which was my original point. OVA isn't Hirano's work as much Jackson's triology was Tolkien's (as an example, obviously Hellsing manga isn't in the level of fantasy books) which is a little off topic, considering we should be talking about pairings.
DocxCaptain!
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Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:50 pm
MercifulShahrazad OVA canon should never be put as the same as Manga canon either. The same person who did the TV series colors his versions in the OVA and this shows since the beginning. If you don't learn how to difference the canons as they are, then you have a problem. The OVA isn't Hirano's work, he's not as involved as you think as well. The same person who produced the Anime produced the OVA. Take Alucard x young Integra as example, in the OVA is crack. But in both, Anime and Manga, have sexual (OA) and romantic (Manga) subtext that in the OVA lacks. umm, i'm only going to say this once, so listen well. the ova is based on and follows the manga's universe, as opposed to the OA universe, which skews off into left field. it is NOT the same person, NOR even entirely the same company producing the OVA as did the OA a decade ago. things change in 10 years, and hirano DOES INDEED have a major creative control over the content of the OVA, it's in his contract. do you think after the debacle of the OA's escaping his control and rambling off in a direction he never intended would have been forgotten by hirano, and that he'd just let ANYONE go traipsing off with his work again? NO. This time, he does have oversight, and is keeping the OVAs as faithful to his original work as possible. copyright laws are different in japan, and the studios that produce certain things can go their own way sometimes with an artist's work, but hirano made sure BEFORE even a single storyboard was sketched that he would have a say and a controlling hand in the interpretation of his work. the ova universe is the same universe that the manga takes place in, with a MINOR few variances, which does not in fact break "canon", because all the major and minor events neccesary to making it "hellsing" are accounted for by the flow of the manga. it is not a seperate canon, it's merely another version of the events running as close as possible to the manga events. OK, let's use a nice annoying biblical reference... if the manga would be the core mythology of the universe, the ovas are like one of the gospels, the same events with a slightly different perspective. it's the same with the OA, but the OA is like the gospel of thomas, it's not accepted into the "canon" of the entirety of the hellsing mythos because it goes into left field, and yet it IS part of the core up until the divergence. the gospel of thomas was labeled as non-canon and heretical, deleted from the bible during one of the early reformations. it is considered one of the many "fanfic" gospels invented by bored monks seeking to embellish the bible with their own interpretations and back-stories for their favorite characters. many feel the same about the OA, because it rambled off from the original manga universe and has naked purple witchdoctors and crazy "insert chip here and we makez you AWESOMEEVILDUDEZ!" action. technically, each one has it's own loosely-set "canon", and yet are also part of a greater work, and are all in their entirety, even the hentai works, considered "Canon" for the Hellsing universe as envisioned and realized by Kouta Hirano himself in some form or another. and yet each work does indeed have its seperations, but are all part of a larger mythos. in the end, you can make comparisons, allegories, and blah blah blah about differing canons like a bunch of rabbis debating scripture and interpretations til you turn plaid in the face, but when it all comes down to it, does anyone really care??? to make an insanely long post even longer... i've already given you 53 minutes of my life typing. no one really cares. no, really, they don't.
also, i apologize if i've offended anyone with the theological references, but people are taking this crap way too serious sometimes and making it seem that way.and yes, i know i've said that before.
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