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Hoxtalicious

Greedy Partner

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:15 am


It's done so for the sake of special and heavy weapons. That and otherwise people would just field an uneven number of models as a single platoon. If you really want that fodder to be effective, take the Independant Commissar doctrine and slap him in the platoon, give the platoon flamers, then send it into the path of whatever you want them to stop. Seeing as screening is no longer a viable use of this entry, you can either use it as a speedbump or meatshield. Nobody can hack through 30 - 50 men in a single turn.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:17 am


So when deploying, I do one whole platoon at a time, right? And they ALL have to move together?

Ophiuchus


Hoxtalicious

Greedy Partner

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:15 am


Ophiuchus
So when deploying, I do one whole platoon at a time, right? And they ALL have to move together?


You deploy the platoon as a single choice, but the squads may be set up apart from one another and move independantly. Though they count as a single choice, they may move seperately etc. (This is one of those things other, more inexperienced people see the IG as a cheese cake army because of it's "massive amount" of Troop and HQ choices. I got into a stupid fight over it once... It's a funny anecdote posted somewhere in the beginning of this thread.)

A conscript platoon is placed as a single mass of 20-50 men and moves as a squad of 20-50 men. I field a 30 men large Conscript platoon with three flamers (BS 2, makes them able to hurt something) and use them as a speed bump against horde armies or as an inplaceable way of holding an objective. The only flip side is moving the unit. Gah, thirty models at a time...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:39 pm


Ophiuchus
So when deploying, I do one whole platoon at a time, right? And they ALL have to move together?


yes, the HOLE platoon has to move like one unit.

they are mainly a cannon foder unit. but with the new target priority rules they're really bad at the job that they where made for.

SetgTheiDe


Ophiuchus

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:37 pm


Lt_Brookman
Ophiuchus
So when deploying, I do one whole platoon at a time, right? And they ALL have to move together?


You deploy the platoon as a single choice, but the squads may be set up apart from one another and move independantly. Though they count as a single choice, they may move seperately etc. (This is one of those things other, more inexperienced people see the IG as a cheese cake army because of it's "massive amount" of Troop and HQ choices. I got into a stupid fight over it once... It's a funny anecdote posted somewhere in the beginning of this thread.)

A conscript platoon is placed as a single mass of 20-50 men and moves as a squad of 20-50 men. I field a 30 men large Conscript platoon with three flamers (BS 2, makes them able to hurt something) and use them as a speed bump against horde armies or as an inplaceable way of holding an objective. The only flip side is moving the unit. Gah, thirty models at a time...

Ah. I'm thinking of the "light infantry" doctrine. It says it applies to all infantry platoons. So that should INCLUDE conscript infantry platoons, right?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:55 pm


Ophiuchus
Lt_Brookman
Ophiuchus
So when deploying, I do one whole platoon at a time, right? And they ALL have to move together?


You deploy the platoon as a single choice, but the squads may be set up apart from one another and move independantly. Though they count as a single choice, they may move seperately etc. (This is one of those things other, more inexperienced people see the IG as a cheese cake army because of it's "massive amount" of Troop and HQ choices. I got into a stupid fight over it once... It's a funny anecdote posted somewhere in the beginning of this thread.)

A conscript platoon is placed as a single mass of 20-50 men and moves as a squad of 20-50 men. I field a 30 men large Conscript platoon with three flamers (BS 2, makes them able to hurt something) and use them as a speed bump against horde armies or as an inplaceable way of holding an objective. The only flip side is moving the unit. Gah, thirty models at a time...

Ah. I'm thinking of the "light infantry" doctrine. It says it applies to all infantry platoons. So that should INCLUDE conscript infantry platoons, right?

yes, that does include the conscripe platoons, but you have to play 10 points for the hole entire platoon for them to use it.

SetgTheiDe


Ophiuchus

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:04 pm


SetgTheiDe
Ophiuchus
Lt_Brookman
Ophiuchus
So when deploying, I do one whole platoon at a time, right? And they ALL have to move together?


You deploy the platoon as a single choice, but the squads may be set up apart from one another and move independantly. Though they count as a single choice, they may move seperately etc. (This is one of those things other, more inexperienced people see the IG as a cheese cake army because of it's "massive amount" of Troop and HQ choices. I got into a stupid fight over it once... It's a funny anecdote posted somewhere in the beginning of this thread.)

A conscript platoon is placed as a single mass of 20-50 men and moves as a squad of 20-50 men. I field a 30 men large Conscript platoon with three flamers (BS 2, makes them able to hurt something) and use them as a speed bump against horde armies or as an inplaceable way of holding an objective. The only flip side is moving the unit. Gah, thirty models at a time...

Ah. I'm thinking of the "light infantry" doctrine. It says it applies to all infantry platoons. So that should INCLUDE conscript infantry platoons, right?

yes, that does include the conscripe platoons, but you have to play 10 points for the hole entire platoon for them to use it.
so? conscript squads cost sod all anywho. Having all of that then adding 10 is nothing!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:52 am


gonk NO! F*CK NO! READ THE CODEX! Conscript Platoons do NOT benefit from any Doctrines save for the Close Order Drill trait. Nothing else, read the explanation on page 55! Okay, I may sound like flipping out, but too many people have already misunderstood the writing in the codex. Again, Conscript Platoons do NOT have access to Doctrines save for the Close Order Drill doctrine.

Also, when applying the Light Infantry Doctrine, it's per squad. You pay ten points per squad, not for the whole platoon. Same with all skills and equipment things. Why? Because it would be cheap otherwise! READ THE BLOODY BOOK. Please, this is why the IG is seen as the suck by many, because people fail to read what it really says.


Please people. re-read the definition of "Guard Infantry", which discusses the units that may receive the said upgrades and skills.

Hoxtalicious

Greedy Partner


Ophiuchus

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:34 am


Lt_Brookman
Please, this is why the IG is seen as the suck by many, because people fail to read what it really says.

It's more likely to be due to the fact many guard players use them for what they're good at - tanks and cheap veterans with meltas to speed up the field and molest your armor support. My army however... I want mostly infantry... I think an army of infantry looks neat. I'll have one or two tanks, obviously - for sometimes, you need some heavy busting power.. but it's mostly going to be infantry and some conscripts to get in the way.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:27 am


I have a question on a 2000 pt army, and it works...

here's the lay down

HQ: Colonel, power sword and bolt pistol, everyone else has meltas and a lascannon
Veteran 1: Storm Trooper Squad, w/ power sword for sarge, GL for support. Rhino included
Veteran 2 Storm Trooper Squad, w/ power sword for charge, flamer for support, Rhino included.
Veteran 3: Sniper Assassin. (I can't remember.)

Troops 1: Infantry platoon stare Las cannon and two flamers for command squad, two squads, both armed with flamers
Troops 2: Infantry platoon, Same as above
Troops 3: Mortar Squad
Troops 4: Heavy support Squad, with autocannons
Troops 5: Heavy support Squad, with autocannons
Troops 6: Heavy Support Squad, with Heavy Bolters

Fast Attack 1, 2, 3: Hellhounds

Heavy Support: Leman Russ with front mounted Lascannons with side sponson H-Flamers
Heavy Support: Leman Russ with THREE Heavy stubbers
Heavy Support: Basilisk

Is this a viable army? I think the cost at the end was 1995. I no longer have the rule book!! crying

Auren Shiro


Hoxtalicious

Greedy Partner

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:07 am


Auren Shiro
I have a question on a 2000 pt army, and it works...

here's the lay down

HQ: Colonel, power sword and bolt pistol, everyone else has meltas and a lascannon
Veteran 1: Storm Trooper Squad, w/ power sword for sarge, GL for support. Rhino included
Veteran 2 Storm Trooper Squad, w/ power sword for charge, flamer for support, Rhino included.
Veteran 3: Sniper Assassin. (I can't remember.)

Troops 1: Infantry platoon stare Las cannon and two flamers for command squad, two squads, both armed with flamers
Troops 2: Infantry platoon, Same as above
Troops 3: Mortar Squad
Troops 4: Heavy support Squad, with autocannons
Troops 5: Heavy support Squad, with autocannons
Troops 6: Heavy Support Squad, with Heavy Bolters

Fast Attack 1, 2, 3: Hellhounds

Heavy Support: Leman Russ with front mounted Lascannons with side sponson H-Flamers
Heavy Support: Leman Russ with THREE Heavy stubbers
Heavy Support: Basilisk

Is this a viable army? I think the cost at the end was 1995. I no longer have the rule book!! crying


Sorry, but what did you smoke? Imperial Guard does not field Rhino tanks, we cannot field heavy weapon support squads as troop choices and leman russ tanks CANNOT have three heavy stubbers. The Imperial Guard also cannot field assassins unless an Inquisitor or Inquisitor lord is included in the list. If the storm troopers are from an inquisitor army, then they are to be fielded as troops choices, not elites.

Also, mixing lascannons in squads with flamers is not the greatest idea.

Let me put it like this, you need a new codex! Read it through thoroughly and think things over.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:16 am


I can understand the assassin slipup as in 2nd and 3rd ed, any imperial force could field one...
But the rest of that? gonk
Where the ******** did half of that come from?

Ophiuchus


Hoxtalicious

Greedy Partner

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:51 am


My thoughts exactly.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:03 pm


@ Lt_brookman - sry, i forgot about that little pharagraph

@ Auren Shiro - ...



rofl

at lest he doesn't have any squats in his list lol

SetgTheiDe


Hoxtalicious

Greedy Partner

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:19 pm


My advice for new Guard players is to go without Doctrines in the first games, as most can't seem to find the right mix in kit and traits. Remember that you can only choose from five doctrines and that you must comply to the rules in the description. If uncertain of which set of doctrines to use, look at the studio armies in the codex for inspiration or reference. Some studio armies have more then five doctrines, but that does not allow the smart asses here to create an army with seven different doctrines and special troops.

I myself simply use the Cadian Doctrines and use six of the seven listed. I find Grenadiers a tad of a waste, but the others are put to good use.

One thing to keep in mind is that while some skills and drills apply to all squads, they do not always benefit from it. Prime example is Sharpshooters, allowing you to reroll 1's on the to hit rolls. While I find it a waste for normal infantry squads, this drill is ideal for heavy weapon support squads with say, lascannons or autocannons. In nine out of ten battles, you'll get your ten points back as well spent.

One other thing to note is when taking carapace armour, all units designated as Guard Infantry must take the upgrade for 20 pts PER squad. That means you have to pay 20 points for that six man heavy weapons squad.

A thing to think about when fielding a Guard horde army:
Doctrines:
- Close order drill
- Conscript platoons
- Heavy weapon platoons
- Die hards / Iron Discipline (Both are great, though my heart goes out to iron discipline)
- Independant Commissars

Fielding some vehicles may be viable, but when going for the 2.000 points infantry mob, take sentinels, as they fit in and act as handy support platforms for advancing fodder. If going into character all the way, field mortars, lot's and lot's of mortars. They may seem weak, but they can hurt foes quite well and the pinning they cause is ideal.

But when fielding a sea of men, be sure to have the command bubble up close as they are bound to receive heavy fire/in your face damage.
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