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 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:19 pm
>.> Not Profile Bloodline Application. And I thought only crew could >.> I don't you see on the crew list.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:29 pm
Tsunade was the weakest Sannin, tons of ninja could destroy her. Let's start a list
Orochimaru
Sasuke
Naruto
Jiraya
Kakashi
Pein (and every member in Akatsuki)
Hanzo
Gaara
Third Kazekage
Mizukage
Raikage
Danzo
.... Yeah if Tsunade is the pinacle of Medical ninja then they have alot to work on. I mean Chiyo would be a better choice, especially if she were younger. All Tsunade has is reputation, she hasn't done too much lately in terms of combat prowess.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:12 pm
But the thing is, medical ninjas aren't necessarily meant for combat. Their main strength and usefulness lies in support. That's why it even says in their description that medical shinobis need to stay away from the main fight. If you want, you can think of it this way. No medical shinobi means no implants and all those broken bones would take weeks to heal instead of days. Not to mention, some guilds make it so that only medics can learn sealing jutsus. In the case of those guilds, Akatsuki would be unable to function without any medics. Without a medic in a village, too many ninja would be injured and unable to go on missions, basically crippling the village. Of course, a village can't survive on medics alone and they may not be the most important position, but they're definitely too important to be considered as only the eighth most important job in a village.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:16 pm
Kagetsukiko But the thing is, medical ninjas aren't necessarily meant for combat. Their main strength and usefulness lies in support. That's why it even says in their description that medical shinobis need to stay away from the main fight. If you want, you can think of it this way. No medical shinobi means no implants and all those broken bones would take weeks to heal instead of days. Not to mention, some guilds make it so that only medics can learn sealing jutsus. In the case of those guilds, Akatsuki would be unable to function without any medics. Without a medic in a village, too many ninja would be injured and unable to go on missions, basically crippling the village. Of course, a village can't survive on medics alone and they may not be the most important position, but they're definitely too important to be considered as only the eighth most important job in a village. How often do we really need a medic in the role play universe though?
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:24 pm
Kumogakure (In the canon Naruverse) runs mainly on military force. Im not saying medics are useless or not that important but I would prioritize other ninja before them. With no offensive ninja, medical shinobi would lose most of the usefulness besides healing villagers or so.
And those guild that only allow medical shinobi to use sealing jutsu were probably only looking for something to make the class seem more useful. I really don't see how they could come up with that result any other way =/
I just said eight as a number for medical ninja. Personally I always thought of them as a sort of subclass for chakra control experts. Their primary class could be Genjutsu but they could be decent medics at the same time.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:42 pm
Meta: Well... I can see where you're going with that -_- .... Most people just tend to use npc medics when it comes to little stuff like healing bones.... Besides, weapon-class shinobis are usually allowed to learn the basic medical jutsus as well from the guilds that I'm in >.> .
Martin:While it's true that medical shinobi would be fairly useless without the combat shinobi and I'd have to agree that there should be more combat shinobis than medics, there are generally and usually fewer medics than combat shinobis making them, in a sense, more valuable than the combat shinobis. Of course, you're argument still stands. Honestly, I'd like to think as all shinobi types having equal amounts of importance. That's what I meant in my argument both in this post and my other post.
Maybe they felt that sealing jutsu should go to medics because it'd require a lot of chakra control confused ?
The thing is, genjutsu takes a lot of study (at least I think it does) and medical jutsu takes a lot of study (I'm certain it does) so a good genjutsuist can't exactly be a good medic and vice-versa. Besides, don't puppets require a lot of chakra control as well? And decent ninjutsu-specialists can also be created from people with excellent chakra control.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:56 pm
Im not sure if Sealing Jutsu really take that much control, I mean Tenten is the only ninja I know who uses alot of Fuinjutsu though it's mainly for summoning weapons. Genjutsu takes alot of study but for Medical it seems like something anyone could pick up.
Ino & Sakura Haruno for example. Both became fairly good over the time skip. Most Non-elemental jutsu types seem like skills that can be just picked up (excluding genjutsu, puppetry, possibly Juinjutsu).
Also what does everyone think of the difference between Clan jutsu and Bloodlines. For sure I know they are not the same but after some studying I realized Clan jutsu are just closesly guarded techniques developed by a group of shinobi. Take Shino's clan or Kiba's clan. Both just use specific jutsu (Shino had a hive implanted into his body at birth). However Ino's and Shikamaru's clan seem more developed and specialized.
I guess what im trying to say is...Could Clan jutsu be learned by an outsider?
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:06 pm
Umm.... Being a medic in the Naruto-verse is basically the equivalent of a doctor in this world. While there's a bunch of jutsus and stuff there that prevent the need of high-tech stuff, the medic still needs to remember all the parts of a body and know how they work to perform surgeries and such. If I remember correctly, there are no jutsus that allow you to perform an auto-surgery. Things can get really complex, like connecting the nerves for transplants and such. It's not only surgery, really. Creating poisons and antidotes isn't exactly easy either.
As for Ino and Sakura, Ino only managed to get a hold of the basics. She can't do more complex stuff like surgeries and such. Actually, if it weren't for her family's knowledge of flowers, she wouldn't have been able to create potions and antidotes either.
As for clan jutsus, I believe so if it makes sense. Take the first two examples: Kiba and Shino. If you're an outsider who suddenly decided to join the Aburame or Inuzuka clan when your 15 or something, then you won't be able to because both of their clans require time to bond with their partner(s). However, if you were adopted from a young age (for the Inuzukas) or even as a baby (for the Aburames) I wouldn't see why you shouldn't be able to learn their techniques. On the other hand, the Nara and Yamanaka clan jutsus just require a lot of practice so I think it'll be reasonable to start on them whenever you want.
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:40 am
Martin Spiralwave Also what does everyone think of the difference between Clan jutsu and Bloodlines. For sure I know they are not the same but after some studying I realized Clan jutsu are just closesly guarded techniques developed by a group of shinobi. Take Shino's clan or Kiba's clan. Both just use specific jutsu (Shino had a hive implanted into his body at birth). However Ino's and Shikamaru's clan seem more developed and specialized. I guess what im trying to say is...Could Clan jutsu be learned by an outsider?
Bloodline jutsu are simple... you have to have the genetics, or you can't use their form of ninjutsu.
Clan jutsu (or Hiden Jutsu) are the carefully guarded secrets of a clan. The Aburame and Nara clans are perfect examples of this. TECHNICALLY, such techniques could be taught to anyone... but as they are the pride and fame of a clan... they are closely guarded. I would suppose that if you were to steal a scroll to learn a Hiden scroll... it MIGHT work. But I would guess that even such an action would bring no result, as I'm sure even the scroll would be encrypted/trapped, or unreadable in some way.
So could the TECHNICALLY be learned by an outsider? Yes, so long as they were taught to you by a Clan member.
Would I ACTUALLY allow someone to do this in the RP?... Not likely... As it would mess with the spirit of the RP (or rather the way things work in the Naruto universe)
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:19 pm
To comment on what you said earlier Kage, i will say this; Genjutsu, and medics do NOT mix. medics are better with ninjutsu, because it's what they can already see, and something they can feel most of the time. medics have hard time with strictly visable stuff, because they are best with their hands, that's why you almost never see medics preforming genjutsu.
Also, sealing jutsu's DO take a lot of controle, because you need to make sure that it only affects the one target, it's not as easy as most would think if you took the whole thing apart and looked at it in peaces.
And for the record, summoning and sealing jutsu are compleatly different things. keep in mind that sealing jutsu's are for putting something where it doesn't belong where as summoning jutsu are for taking things from someplace else and bringing it to the one who's preforming the summon, basicly a transportation/telaportation jutsu. it's a big difference.
Kage you also have a point with ino and the flower knowledge. With out it, then she wouldn't know poisons and antidotes, and in the medical feild that's VERY important to know.
and Cobra, you're right, I would have picked that apart and explained it, but i've been gone all day and i had the stomach flu all night. so needless to say, i couldn't be on.
Also i need to be placed somewhere, just anywhere but leave. that's the one i can't do. not pleasently at least. if she goes there, she'll be giving the kage AND the genin and any other shinobi a run for their money and a heck of a time. however she will do what she has to if push comes to shove, i just need help editing my profile.
For the record, yes i know my post is long, but i explain EVERYTHING in detail, if i have something to explain i will do it in it's fullest and do it well and check all of my information at least seven times before even CONSIDERING using it, thirteen before i will use it. all of my information is backed up quite well before i state it i promise you all that much.
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SaiANBUAkatsukiHealerGirl
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Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:46 pm
I... wasn't the one that said genjutsus and medics mix, Martin was -_-' .... Although, they do, kind of. Both genjutsu specialists and medics need good chakra control. At least I remember someone saying that in the manga. As for the whole visual part, I'm not even sure where you got that from so I can't really say much about it neutral .
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:09 pm
Thanks Cobra, I just wanted to make sure what I was right about it. I originally thought Clan techniques were genetic until recently when I read through Narupedia.
Also, in the manga or anime, there was no official mention of whether or not sealing jutsu require 'alot' of chakra control, especially since many Fuinjutsu are performed by non-medical ninja. Examples include Kakashi, Itachi, Pein, The Sound Four, Jiraiya, Chiyo, Danzo, some of the Kages so on and so forth.
Also I've never come across any specifics on the intricacies of Fuinjutsu, besides the fact they incorporate kanji to alter some feature of the intended target. Im not sure about your Medic argument though Sai =/
Whether I read it wrong or not, it doesn't seem like medical ninja would have trouble with visual techniques. Most of the time they need a visual to confirm a diagnosis or perform surgery on a patient. Moving around blindly doesn't seem like something a medical ninja would do unless it was impossible to locate the affliction.
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:50 pm
Martin Spiralwave Thanks Cobra, I just wanted to make sure what I was right about it. I originally thought Clan techniques were genetic until recently when I read through Narupedia.
Also, in the manga or anime, there was no official mention of whether or not sealing jutsu require 'alot' of chakra control, especially since many Fuinjutsu are performed by non-medical ninja. Examples include Kakashi, Itachi, Pein, The Sound Four, Jiraiya, Chiyo, Danzo, some of the Kages so on and so forth.
Also I've never come across any specifics on the intricacies of Fuinjutsu, besides the fact they incorporate kanji to alter some feature of the intended target. Im not sure about your Medic argument though Sai =/
Whether I read it wrong or not, it doesn't seem like medical ninja would have trouble with visual techniques. Most of the time they need a visual to confirm a diagnosis or perform surgery on a patient. Moving around blindly doesn't seem like something a medical ninja would do unless it was impossible to locate the affliction.
...considering Kakashi was a Jounin at the age of 13, and was 27 when Orochimaru said this to him; I think we can very easily assume that sealing jutsu are VERY high level techniques that require years to learn/master.
Even in the Sanbi Arc, it was shown that the Sealing jutsu used required A. Shizune (Tsunade's attendant, and a very highly-skilled medical nin) to be the leader... and B. 3 other kunoichi to have high levels of chakra control, simply to utilize the jutsu (which Ino couldn't even really handle)
Almost all other instances of Sealing Jutsu used in the show involved a Sannin or a Kage... which i think speaks to their level of difficulty and their power.
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:11 pm
I know that Fuinjutsu are used by high-ranking ninja, every ninja I listed were fairly powerful at the time, but I don't think they should ever be exclusive to a class because of this difficulty. I mean powerful ninja tend to have high chakra control, so I never understood why a medical shinobi could learn Fuinjutsu when a Sannin Ninjutsu specialist couldn't.
I know that doesn't happen in this guild but somehow that was brought up earlier in our conversation >.<
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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:32 pm
I brought it up earlier. One of the Naruto guilds I'm in has it so that sealing jutsu can only be learned as a subelement by medical nin. I think I brought that up in an attempt to defend the usefulness of medics in a Naruto rp.
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