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 Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:03 am
Well if your saying the TAu gained enough expirence to repels the IoM couldn't it be said that the IoM also gained expirence to wipe the Tau out?
I'd go with G.Become stuck in an on going campain like Armorgedon.
The IoM would bring Ordo Xenos(Tau are aliens after all),SM's(at least 9 companies from various chapters),IG(4 regiments minimum),Armoured companies,a few Titan leigos,Imp.Navy,Ordo Hereticus(Ethereals appear to have minor psycic abbilitys) and Assasins.*
While the IoM may not wipe out thet Tau they would do untold damage.I'm sure the Tau would wipe out thousands of lives but the IoM has vastly more numbers than the Tau could ever hope to match.
*Note that apart from the Ordos this would be a medium sized crusade.If they took what they used for the 13th Black Crusade then the Tau would be gone.
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:53 am
Darth_Ravage I just want opinions on this, but if the IoM launched another crusade against the Tau, would the Tau A). Succumb to it B). Barely survive it C). Repel it with some difficulty D). Repel it easily E). Drive it back into the IoM and capture some worlds in the process F). Destroy it completely and capture IoM worlds and troops I would say D, as they repelled teh Damocles crusade, which was their first conflict with the IoM. They would probably have an easier time of it this round. I wouldn't say they easily repelled that crusade, in fact was it even the tau at all? As I'm aware they left the sector because of some oncoming hive fleet or something, and were winning before. stare
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:00 pm
The main problem with saying "a crusade like the Damocles Crusade!" is that the Damocles Crusade was hardly a crusade to the scale of other Imperial Crusades. They had few numbers, they got severely bloodied, and then were ordered to pull out. A second crusade, one fielding the sort of numbers used in the Sabbat worlds or a similar offensive would be very difficult for the Tau to drive off. They could probably do it, but it would leave them quite reduced in power. I'd be of the opinion that they'd be more likely to build some Tau style craftworlds, leave, and wait for the Space Marines to bugger off to thier next lightning raid assignment, then come back, pwnzor the Imp Guard and take thier planets back. Fits with the Tau doctrine of war. Plus, with the Tau FTL system, I do believe that intra-system jumps are possible, with some slick math that Tau AI is probably capable of. So the Tau could hop back in system and really put some hurt on the Imperial Fleet.
Oh, and RedSamurai, noone was actually winning the Damocles Crusade when the Imps pulled out. It was grinding to a bloody stalemate. The Imps were taking ground, but it was because the Tau were giving it to them, as they don't care about land; they evacuated and set up ambushes and raids. If you want to look at it from a purely land-taking perspective, yes the Imps were winning, but the Tau were not taking major losses on the ground, and were essentially fighting like the VietCong. Raids, ambushes, booby traps; using thier knowledge of thier home territory to pwnz the Imperials while minimizing thier own losses.
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:49 pm
And remember, the IoM does not improve or adapt, or change at all, their tactics or tech, the Tau do. So the Tau benefit from experience, the IoM doesn't really.
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:02 pm
One short form. STC. The Imperium dose adapt & grow but only by using STCs
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:29 pm
Darth_Ravage And remember, the IoM does not improve or adapt, or change at all, their tactics or tech, the Tau do. So the Tau benefit from experience, the IoM doesn't really. Thats not entirely true. While the IoM dosen't change in Technolgy it is only Marines who don't change in tactics,instead they follow the codex astartes that tells them how best to deal in any given situation.Dealing with a fully established Xenos territory is probably in there. Even then there are chapters that deviate from the Codex and would form there own tactics e.g:Space Wolves and Black Templars(whom created there own pattern of Landraider(the Crusader)for just one battle and look how thats done.) The IoM does adapt to diffrent situations.They don't have standard pattren crusades.If one way fails they will try another method.they aren't so stuck in their ways that they would let themselves fall victim to an alien race.The IoM won't let the Tau become to strong and will try to dislodge them. The IoM do learn.If they didn't there would be no Ordo's.They wouldn't train psykers and they wouldn't have Ogyns or Ratlings. I still say the Impirium could deal with the Tau if they took then seriously enough. Sadly the IoM dosen't really register the Tau as a major threat like they shoud.Instead its "How could a tiny Empire hope to overthrow the might of His Holy Emperors Imperium?"
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:35 pm
Actually, from the fluff, the Imperium views the Tau as a useful buffer against the Tyranid invasions. Not that they'd ever consider allying with the Tau, but if your two enemies can slug it out and weaken themselves before you step in...
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:19 pm
Oryn Actually, from the fluff, the Imperium views the Tau as a useful buffer against the Tyranid invasions. Not that they'd ever consider allying with the Tau, but if your two enemies can slug it out and weaken themselves before you step in... The enemy of my enemy is my friend
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:54 pm
Reddemon The enemy of my enemy is my friend Except in the case of the Imperium, not. Cause they'd never condone that saying; the only friendly aliens are alien corpses. They just see the Tau as a useful speedbump, and it's eaiser to let the Tyranids take care of them than to try and kill them themselves. Or if the Tau win, then the Imperium doesn't have to worry about the 'Nids. It's win-win for the Imps if they leave the Tau alone.
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:44 am
Except according to the GW website talking about Crisis suit configurations, the Tau repelled a 'Nid splinter fleet with "hundreds of Tau and Kroot killed". Hear that, only hundreds. It was either a very very small splinter fleet, or the Tau just kicked the collective asses of those 'nids (they do have asses don't they?) . Which they do on the tabletop game quite frequently. The Tau do fight very differently from the IoM, so they might have caught the Hive Mind off guard.
Obviously the IoM stratagy of weakening the Tau by letting them get hit by splinter fleets didn't work very well if their casualties were still in the hundreds.
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:12 am
Hundreds of caulties out of how many?There might have only beens a few thousand.
The IoM has hive cities that have populations of over 8 billion.In fact if you look at the Eye of Terror campian map there are worlds with 22 million million people.
how big is the Tau Empire in comarison?
Too a small population hundreds of caulties could be severe.
Also letting Tyranids eatthe tau can only be bad.Think of all the things the Hive Mind could form using the Tau genetics.thats why the IoM hate when Nids fight Orks.
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:39 am
All the things that they can form from Tau genetics? Like what? The ability to conrol other Tau? A marginally higher G tolerence and spatial awareness? Most of the Tau's abilities are not inborn, but due to thier cooperation in research and technology. Secondly, as far as I know, the only ones with the ability to directly extract genetic information from thier meals is the Kroot. The Tyranids on the other hand, will merely change their bio weapons and forms to best combat the newest enemy. And Orks will get stronger the more conflict they endure. So in a matchup between the Orks and Tyranids, whoever wins will come out stronger. In a matchup between the Tau and Tyranids, the 'Nids might come out stronger, but you can only reinforce carapaces so much, you know?
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:19 pm
GT_Popogeejo Hundreds of caulties out of how many?There might have only beens a few thousand. The IoM has hive cities that have populations of over 8 billion.In fact if you look at the Eye of Terror campian map there are worlds with 22 million million people. how big is the Tau Empire in comarison? Too a small population hundreds of caulties could be severe. Also letting Tyranids eatthe tau can only be bad.Think of all the things the Hive Mind could form using the Tau genetics.thats why the IoM hate when Nids fight Orks. Its small because its so densly packed
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:58 pm
Reddemon GT_Popogeejo Hundreds of caulties out of how many?There might have only beens a few thousand. The IoM has hive cities that have populations of over 8 billion.In fact if you look at the Eye of Terror campian map there are worlds with 22 million million people. How big is the Tau Empire in comparison? Too a small population hundreds of caulties could be severe. Also letting Tyranids eatthe tau can only be bad.Think of all the things the Hive Mind could form using the Tau genetics.thats why the IoM hate when Nids fight Orks. Its small because its so densly packed What do you mean.What is "it." If you mean the Empire is small but densly packed with Tau then thats a disadvatage to the them.It makes them easier to wipe out in one go. If you mean the population is small and densly packed then thats even worse for them. As for 'Nids gaining from eating Tau,the 'Nids could indeed gain the abillity to command them. Think what they could do then. Hive mind tells the Tau to build sheild drones for for it's infantry.That means alot more get into CC. Just because the Tau arn't able to contribute directly from their genetics dosen't mena they are usless.All the Hive mind needs are Ethereals.
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:04 pm
GT_Popogeejo As for 'Nids gaining from eating Tau,the 'Nids could indeed gain the abillity to command them. Think what they could do then. Hive mind tells the Tau to build sheild drones for for it's infantry.That means alot more get into CC. Just because the Tau arn't able to contribute directly from their genetics dosen't mena they are usless.All the Hive mind needs are Ethereals. The problem is, you're looking at the Tyranids as if this is Starcraft. If it was the Zerg hive mind, sure, but in 40k all we've seen the 'Nids do is reduce things to organic mush, eat them, and then move on. 40k 'Nids don't extract the abilities of a creature when they eat it the way Zerg do. Instead, the 'Nids go through rapid mutations to try and counter the threat that it is currently facing. Secondly, even if the Tyranids COULD get the ability to command Tau, they'd command them to sit still while they got eaten, not build Shield Drones. The hive mind is not a sentient, tactical oriented force. It wants to consume all things and spread, and doesn't consider gaining new technology a viable option. Besides, if they leave the Tau there, that's wasted biomass that they need to refuel and resupply thier hive fleet.
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