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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:41 am
The main differing point there is that you think that abortion is a woman's right. 3nodding
But the point is that it is progressive on both sides; The Pro-Choice side is progressive because they are protecting what they believe is a woman's right, the Pro-Life side is progressive because they are trying to protect all of the rights of the unborn.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:08 am
Seeing the Kraken It makes sense to you that it's progressive, divineseraph, but only because you're pro-life. To me it seems regressive because it is taking the rights of the woman. But that's differing viewpoints. to give them to someone else, and moreso. much like how abolishing slavery took away a slaveowners right to own slaves, but gave black people freedom. every law takes away one freedom or another. ours is to protect lives. yours is to protect convenience.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:18 am
La Veuve Zin Thank you. I don't know how the right to abortion ever became a "liberal" issue. OWAIT, propaganda. stare I'm actually kind of thankful for this discrepancy, as it's encouraged me to question both liberalism and conservatism. Don't mind me, I'm very, very drunk.
And I'm still rooting for the Leafs, Someday they'll win again.
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:56 am
Beware the Jabberwock La Veuve Zin Thank you. I don't know how the right to abortion ever became a "liberal" issue. OWAIT, propaganda. stare I'm actually kind of thankful for this discrepancy, as it's encouraged me to question both liberalism and conservatism. Don't mind me, I'm very, very drunk.
And I'm still rooting for the Leafs, Someday they'll win again.  Well, if you take away the personhood of a fetus and instead refer to it as a lump of cells, it makes sense, since it frees women from one consequence of sex, and free sex is within the boundaries of doing whatever you want. That way, you're doing whatever you want without hurting anyone else...unless of course it hurts someone else to use antibiotics or remove a tumor.
I mean, I don't agree with it, but that's what argument is being used. Why the liberals accepted it in the first place? Maybe because of the inaccurate illegal abortion death toll. Maybe because some medical professionals spoke out rather loudly about how a fetus isn't a person. Maybe because women and men shouted "It's an invader!" enough. 
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:56 pm
Beware the Jabberwock Well if you think about it, it is more liberal to be pro-life as the liberal belief is "Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else." I thought that was the Pagan belief? I feel that the liberal belief is "Make sure that the most amount of people can live comfortably". Maybe that is just my liberal belief, though... *wink*
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:37 pm
Liberalism involves supporting individual freedoms for all people. Basically, the government doesn't have the right to tell you what to do until you start hurting someone else or become detrimental to society as a whole.
Well...if a fetus isn't a person, this doesn't really apply, does it?
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:00 pm
WatersMoon110 Beware the Jabberwock Well if you think about it, it is more liberal to be pro-life as the liberal belief is "Do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anyone else." I thought that was the Pagan belief? I feel that the liberal belief is "Make sure that the most amount of people can live comfortably". Maybe that is just my liberal belief, though... *wink*
I'm talking of the technical Liberalism. There's a difference between it and... the party that isn't the republican party. XD Sorry American politics and I don't mesh well. Actual liberalism is much what many people would consider conservative, however these are both misunderstood. Liberalism believes that the government should stay out of everything, as long as those things don't hurt other people (so little to no taxes, big businesses get to do whatever they want, the government has no place in business that whole sha-bang that's usually associated with conservatism). Converatism on the other hand is actually just what it sounds like, it's conserves things. Basically conservatism is the status-quo, and the conservative stance is the stance that seeks to conserve things and to reject change. A lot of the reasons for this are of course moral and religious beliefs, hense why many very religious people are conservative.
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:07 pm
Yeah. Libertarians are the American equivalent of everyone else's Liberal.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:28 am
divineseraph Seeing the Kraken It makes sense to you that it's progressive, divineseraph, but only because you're pro-life. To me it seems regressive because it is taking the rights of the woman. But that's differing viewpoints. to give them to someone else, and moreso. much like how abolishing slavery took away a slaveowners right to own slaves, but gave black people freedom. every law takes away one freedom or another. ours is to protect lives. yours is to protect convenience. Not simply convenience, more a woman's right to choose when she is ready to start a family, instead of being forced into starting one the second she becomes pregnant, or to choose that the children she already has are more important than the one she doesn't know, or to choose how many children she has, or to choose that taking a child into the world is irresponsible, or to choose that she doesn't want to add to the adoption system, or to choose that she couldn't stand carrying a rape baby to term.
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:39 am
I.Am Yeah. Libertarians are the American equivalent of everyone else's Liberal.
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