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Dave

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:45 pm


I've been busy!

Ah well, I'll catch up gradually.

う Verbs!:

とりはまつ。
とりはまった。
とりはまたない。
とりはまたなかった。

木はしぬ。
木はしんだ。
木はしなない。
木はしななかった。

犬はこまる。
犬はこまった。
犬はこまらない。
犬はこまらなかった。

猫はおよぐ。
猫はおよいだ。
猫はおよがない。
猫はおよがなかった。

僕は犬をかう。
僕は犬をかった。
僕は犬をかわない。
僕は犬をかわなかった。

polite forms!:

とりはまちます。
とりはまちました。
とりはまちません。
とりはまちませんでした。

木はしにます。
木はしにました。
木はしにません。
木はしにませんでした。

犬はこまります。
犬はこまりました。
犬はこまりません。
犬はこまりませんでした。

猫はおよぎます。
猫はおよぎました。
猫はおよぎません。
猫はおよぎませんでした。

私は犬をかいます。
私は犬をかいました。
私は犬をかいません。
私は犬をかいませんでした。


Phew! That was good practice.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:57 pm


As for the 私/わたし thing, I'll wait 'til I've seen a more credible source that says you shouldn't before I stop using the kanji, 'cause the wiktionary entry for 私 says:

Quote:
Japanese

Kanji

(grade 6 kanji)

Readings

* On: し (shi)
* Kun: わたし (watashi), わたくし (watakushi), ひそか (hisoka)

Pronoun

私 (わたし, watashi)

also (わたくし, watakushi) more formal
also (あたし atashi)

Note: the pronunciation (あたし, atashi) is generally only used by women when referring to themselves.

1. I (first person pronoun)
* はイギリス人だ。(わたしはイギリスじんだ。, watashi wa igirisu-jin da.)
I am an English person.

Dave


Hermonie Urameshi

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 5:08 pm


Aiko san also says wikipedia isn't reliable at all for Japan and Japanese. surprised
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:19 pm


Well, Wikipedia may be unreliable at times, but Jim Breen's says the same thing.

Also, here is a topic I posted about this. It only has a few replies, but I think keat's post clears it up well.

Just a few more comments from me...

Quote:
Why would Aiko san get something wrong on her language.


Why not? We're all imperfect, have different thinking patterns, learn things differently, etc. If we can make mistakes, she can, too, ne?

Quote:
The Japanese you talk to, are they guys or girls? It makes sense if it's a girl using it. Although, when online, they usually use あたし instead.


All kinds of people, but yes, I'd say mostly female. However, I hardly know anyone who uses あたし.

Also, I've heard that the Japanese don't officially celebrate Halloween, but, as Hermonie said, they celebrate Obon. However, some places hold Halloween themed events, like Tokyo Disneyland.

Sachi_x


Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:19 pm


Okay, it dosen't matter. Whatever way is correct, even if you are doing it wrong, it will take two seconds to correctly re-lean it in the future. Your japanese wont be crippled by wtiting a word in kanji ar the wrong time.

And Japanese people can be wrong too. Do you think that you're english is perfect? I know Japanese people make mistakes too, I've seen it happen. Not huge ones of course, but little things, like we do with english sometimes.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't the Obon festival in the summer?

Enough of that.



Okay everyone, I've unfortunatley been obnoxiously busy lately, and october is almost over. If you don't mind, I'll still post maybe a weeks worth of things after october is over, since that's about how much time I've missed out on, and I don't want to cheat you out of part of the month.

And if somebody wants, I can continue that lessons after it stops being officially the language of the month, if anyone wants to continue learning it.



Now then, I didn't finish this..

Continuation of the て Form


( Yes, I copied this from the end of the last section, so you will know what I am talking about).

Although the て Form has not tense of politeness, it can be in affimrative of negative. To make it in this way, take the final い off of a verb in its non-polite negative form, and add くて。

かう - かわない - かわなくて
たべる - たべて - たべなくて
およぐ - およがない - およがなくて

Example:

猫は外に行って、犬を見なくて、鳥を食べて、水を飲まなくて、魚を食べました。
ねこわそとにいって、いぬをみなくて、とりをたべて、みずをのまなくて、さかなをたべます。
Neko wa soto ni itte, inu wo minakute, tori wo tabete, mizu wo nomanakute, sakana wo tabemashita.
The cat went outside, didn't see a dog, ate a bird, didn't drink water, and ate a fish.

Notice again: the affirmativeness or negativeness is shown, but the tense is not known until the last verb in the sentence.

Other uses

The て form by itself is a casual request.

これを見て。 - Look at this.

Add 下さい (ください, kudasai) to the end to make a polite request.

これを見て下さい。 - Please look at this.

Thats about it for that.


By the way Dave, all that stuff you did for practice was right! Conglaturaitons!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:53 pm


Vajrabhairava
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the Obon festival in the summer?


I looked up Halloween in Japan on google and a lot of things mentioned Obon.

As for わたし, I'm done. Forget it. stare

Hermonie Urameshi

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Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 11:47 am


こ、あ、そ、ど Words


This is a very important and usefull concept in japanese, so pay attention!

In english, we have two kinds of words like this, ones that start with "this", and ones that start with "that". Like, "this way", "that kind of", or just plain "this". Japanese also has words like this, but there are three divisions of them, instead of just the two we use in english. I had already introduced the words これ、それ、 and あれ before. These three words are the simplest of this big jumble. If you remember, これ means "this" in the sense of something close to you, それ for something close to the person you are talking to, and あれ for something far from both of you. All of the こ、あ、そ、ど words work like this.

You can think of it sort of like this:

こ - this___

そ - that___

あ - that___

And also ど, which is something like "what" or "how. So to これ、それ、 and あれ, you can add どれ, meaning which.

So then, I'll list out all the basic ones for you.


こちら、こち - this way
そちら、そち - that way
あちら、あち - that way
どちら、どち - what way

Ex: こちらに来て。 - こちらにきて。 - Kochira ni kite. - Come here.

*Make sure to notice this is "way" in the sense of direction, not as in the way of doing something. Thats the next one.

このように - this way
そのように - that way
あのように - that way
どのように - what way

The よう means something like, "way", "like", or something like that. So, these words literally mean something like "that's way-ly".

Ex: このようにしてください - Please do it like this/in this way.

You can also put ~のよう behind of a noun to mean, like ___.

Ex: あのひとは、ねこのようです。 - That person is like a cat

And if you put に after のよう, it means something like, "does ___ like a ___".

Ex: こいつはぶたのようにたべる。 - This guy eats like a pig.

こう - like this
そう - like that
ああ - like that
どう - how

Ex: そのねこはいつもこうです。 - The cat is always like this. (Maybe said while looking at a lazy cat.)

たべものはどうですか。 - How is the food.

ここ - here
そこ - there
あそこ - there
どこ - where

Ex: どこにいった。 - Where did you go?
ねこは、あそこだ。 - The cat is ovet there.

こんな、このような - this kind of
そんあ、そのような - that kind of
あんあ、あのような - that kind of
どんあ、どのような - what kind of

Ex: かれはどんあひとですか。 - What kind of person is he?
こんあコンピュータはたかい。 - Computers like this are aways expensive.
そんあことができないよ。 - I couldn't do a thing like that!

That's a pretty good c***k out of them there. More will come along as you go.

Random Grammar

Questions

To make a polite question, put か at the end of a question. Don't cahnge anything else.

どこにいきましたか。 - Where did you go?

To use question words, make sure that if you would use は for the word, that you use が instead.

だれがきましたか。 - Who came?

Before, After

To say "before___", put まえに after the verb.

たべるまえに、てをあらう。 - Before I eat, I wash my hands.
がっこうにいくまえに、しんぶんをよむ。 - Before I go to school, Iread the newspaper.

For after, put the verb in the て form, and add から. This has a slightly vauger meaning that the other way. put the verb in the plain past form, and add あとに. This is a bit more specific that the other way.

うちにかえってから、テレビをみた。 - After I got home, I watched TV. ( Sometime after getting home.)
うちにかえったあとに、テレビをみた。 - After I got home, I watched TV. ( With a little more feeling of doing it right after getting home.)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:13 pm


Vajrabhairava
Okay everyone, I've unfortunatley been obnoxiously busy lately, and october is almost over. If you don't mind, I'll still post maybe a weeks worth of things after october is over, since that's about how much time I've missed out on, and I don't want to cheat you out of part of the month.

And if somebody wants, I can continue that lessons after it stops being officially the language of the month, if anyone wants to continue learning it.


I'd be interested 3nodding I'm still a beginner (studying for over a year and half, so not a total noob, but definately nowhere near fluent!), and anything you'd be willing to share would be awesome.

Sachi_x


Dave

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:56 pm


Yeah, I'd definitely be interested in continuing too.

I've been meaning to learn Japanese for like four years now.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:12 pm


Well, looks like there are a few at least that want to keep going.


Having, Existing


In english, we say "there is, there are". In Japanese though, you literally say, "___ exists". There are two verbs used for "to exist", いる and ある. いる is used with animate or living things, and ある for inanimate things. The thing that is existing is always marked with が, except for times when it is being emphasized for some reason and は is used.

いる is a compeltely regular る verb.

いる
いない
いた
いなかった

います
いません
いました
いませんでした

いて~


ある is a bit irregular though.

あります
ありました
ありません
ありませんでした

Those are all normal, but in the plain form, note a few irregularities for the negative.

Present affirmative - ある
*Present negative - ない
Past affirmative - あった
*Past negative - なかった

Examples

猫がいる。 - neko ga iru - There is a cat.
車があります。 - Kuruma ga arimasu. - There is a car.
人がいなかった。 - Hito ga inakatta - There were no people.
コンピュータがない。 - Konpyuuta ga nai. - There is not a computer.
犬がいません。 - Inu ga imasen - There is not a dog.
刀がない。 - Katana ga nai. - There is no sword.

Having

To show possesion, you use the old "___は ___がいる/ある". Put は after whatever is doing the having, and が after whatever is being had. You still need to use the right verb. With this construction, you are literally saying "As for ___, ___ exists."

僕は、猫がいます。 - Boku wa, neko ga imasu. - I have a cat.
彼は犬がいない。 - Kare wa inu ga inai. - He dosen't have a dog.
あの人はお金がない。 - Ano hito wa okane ga nai. - That person dosen't have money.
猫は魚はいました。- Neko wa sakana ga imashita. - The cat had a fish.


To say something is somewhere, use "__は、__(の__)にいる、ある/だ" or "__(の__)に__がいる,ある/だ" The first way is more specific to the thing followed by は, so usually there is an implied "the" in that sentence. In the second type, it is a more general statement, more like "some ___s are in the ___" as opposed to "The ___ is in the ___"

To say something is somewhere more specific, instead of just in the library, to say it is behind, on top of, or on fron of the library, you say ”__は、__の__にいる,ある/だ” or ”__の__に__がいる,ある/だ".

There is not equivalent to "of" in japanese, so you say thing is in the ___'s whatever. The cat is in the librarys front, the dog is in that cat's under.

Here are some place words:

前 - mae - front
後ろ - ushiro - behind
右 - migi - right
左 - hidari - left
上 - ue - top, above
下 - shita(sh'ta) - below, beneath
外 - soto - outside
そば - soba - around, near, by
近く - chikaku - close, near
まわり - mawari - around
向こう - mukou - other side of
横 - yoko - side
隣 - tonari - next to
中 - naka - inside
Some of these might sound like adjectives, but they are really all nouns.

Ex:

図書館の上 - toshokan no ue - above, on top of the library
うちの近く - uchi no chikaku - near the house
猫の後ろ - neko no ushiro - behind the house
学校の前 - gakkou no mae - in front of the school
病院のまわり - byouin no mawari - around the hospital

Now to put aaall of that stuff together.

猫は図書館にいます。 - Neko wa toshokan ni imasu - The cat is in the library.
うちの中に、人がいない。 - Uchi no naka ni, hito ga inai. - There are no people in the house.
学生は学校の後ろにいる。 - Gakusei(gak'sei) wa gakkou no ushiro ni iru. - The student is behind the school.
病院に、動物がいなかった。 - Byouin ni, doubutsu ga inakatta. - There were no animals in the hospital.
あの人のポケットにお金がない。 - Ano hito no poketto no, okane ga nai - There is no money in that persons pocket.
魚は、テーブルの上にいました。 - Sakana wa, teeburu no ue ni imashita - THe fish was on top of the table.

Notice in these examples, to say where the thing is, you can just say that the thing "is" the place where it is.

あの人は図書館お前です。 - Ano hito wa toshokan no mae desu. - That person is infromt of the library.
母はうちの中だ。 - Haha wa uchi no naka da. - Mother is inside the house.
魚は、テーブルの上だった。Sakana wa, teeburu no ue datta. - The fish was ontop of the table.
レストランはパブの近くじゃありません。 - Resutoran wa pabu no chikaku jaarimasen. - The pub is not close to the restaraunt.



Some other stuff

When you put いる after a verb in the て form, it makke it mean "___ing" It conjugates normally.

食べている - tabete iru - eating
食べていない - tabete inai - not eating
食べていた - tabete ita - was eating
食べていなかった - tabete inakatta - wasn't eating
食べています - tabete imasu - eating
食べていません - tabete imasen - not eating
食べていました - tabete imashita - was eating
食べていませんでした - tabete imasendeshita - wasn't eating

There are cases when with certain verbs it means "has__'d" instead of "~ing", but I won't go over those now.

Vajrabhairava


419scambaiterKoko

PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:14 pm


Hermonie Urameshi
I have. *gasp* surprised They have their Obon festival around the time most people celebrate Halloween. It's their own festival for the dead like the Church's All Souls Day and the Mexican holiday of Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead). They don't celebrate Halloween at all the same way most people do.


hai... although I have found halloween in my French, Italian and Russian dictionaries though....

I know they do something HALLOWEEN related though
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:02 am


Yes, but like the REAL Halloween. Like All Soul's Day, which it USED to be called, still celebrated by the Church and Dia de los Muertos, celebrated by Mexicans. Not like what most people do nowadays, where they dress up and go door-to-door saying "TRICK-OR-TREAT!" (All Hallow's Eve fits in there somewhere, but I'm not sure how.)

Hermonie Urameshi

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Sachi_x

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:10 pm


Halloween is said to have originated in the UK, Ireland, and northern France as a Celtic pagan holiday called Samhain about 2,000 years ago. They Celts celebrated Nov. 1 as the end of the summer and harvest, and they associated the upcoming winter with death. On the night of October 31, it was believed that the world of the living and the dead were blurred together, and that ghosts of the dead roamed the Earth, stirring up trouble. The Celts would light sacred bonfires and make sacrifices to the gods while dancing around in costume. The Druids, Celtic priests, were believed to be able to tell fortunes easier in the presence of the spirits, so fortune-telling was a big activity.

Blah, blah, blah, now I'm totally rambling, but you get the idea. Oh, and when the Roman empire conquered most of the Celtic lands, the traditions were mixed, and new holidays (like All Saint's Day and All Soul's Day) were added, eventually becoming the Halloween-time we know today.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:18 pm


Could you guys take the halloween argument somewhere else?

Vajrabhairava


Vajrabhairava

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:32 pm


More Particles


・から - kara - from

日本人は日本から来る。 - Nihinjin wa nihon kara kuru. - Japanese people come from Japan.

彼はうちから出た。 - Kare wa uchi kara deta. - He came out of the house.

Its not always literal, you can think of it sort of as showing something is dona away from something, a bit looser that "from".


・まで - made - up to, until, till

食べるまで、幸せじゃないです。 - Until I eat, I won't be happy.

Often paired with から to mean "from.... till...."

私*は朝から夜まで勉強した。 - Watashi wa asa kara yoru made benkyou shita. - I studied from morning until night.

・や - ya - and.

The difference between と and や is that と is more specific, "this and that and thats all". や is looser and less specific, like " This and that and stuff like that".

えんぴつやペンやブラシで絵を描く。 - Empitsu ya pen ya burashi de e wo kaku. - You draw pictures with things like pencils, pens, and brushes.




* Sorry xp
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Language of the Month

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