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Rashou

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:47 pm


Well, I finally caught up on One Piece (INCREDIBLE series, by the way- a lot of people underestimate it, but it rocks hardcore), so I can give my full opinion on this.

Okay, I'm going to assume Ichigo's crew is the group that's in Hueco Mundo (including Orihime) for now and I added Ganju to keep things even. This will take into account the OP crew before the latest business with Franky (*Spoiler* I.E., Franky's not joined by this scenario). I decided the match ups based on a bit of assumption on which group members correspond in position, power, rank etc. Feel free to suggest alternate match ups. Without further adieau:

Luffy vs. Ichigo- The one "Duh" match up I get. Anyway, I'm seeing Ichigo reign in this one. Shikai Ichigo is on par with Luffy easily. He's undoubtedly faster, can take just as much of a hit, and deals out massive damage just the same. Luffy's Gear 2 v. Bankai Ichigo is, again, pretty even. I'd edge out strength to Luffy, but Ichigo snatches speed by a hair. Things get complicated when you get to Vaizard Ichigo vs. Gear 3 Luffy. Both have huge drawbacks during and after use. During use, Hollow Ichigo only has 11 seconds to hack down at Luffy. Luffy has 1 minute or so to try and pound Ichigo and then after he goes all Chibi. So who wins? I'm personally going with.... Hollow Ichigo! Sure, 11 seconds of kickass doesn't seem like much, but let's recount what he did in JUST his fight with Grimmjow:

1. Completely outmaneuvered Grimmjow, even though the guy was matching his Bankai speed previously.
2. Easily broke Grimmjow's skin with the Getsuga Tenshou which previously only dealt a shallow cut.
3. Deflected a Cero from Grimmjow effortlessly

Gear 3's main focus is on delivering a ton of damage, but Lucci realized its weakness was speed. I don't see Luffy taking a Getsuga Tenshou from Hollow Ichigo, Gear 3 or not, and, though Ichigo couldn't take a hit from Luffy's Gear 3 either, Ichigo's able to dodge applicably with his speed.

Winner- Ichigo

Renji vs. Zoro - I'll admit I'm biased because Renji's my favorite character, so this may not be the best match up; I thought about Ishida instead since they're both the 'Second in command' kind of. I decided Renji's a better match though. Okay, speed is nothing that extreme for either character. Renji's got the reaction to keep up with Shunpo and that kind of speed, but he can't actually move that fast himself. Zoro's in the same position with his ability to perceive Soru, but he doesn't regularly move that fast (I don't think, did he ever use super speed with his fight against Kaku?). Anyway, Renji's Shikai could give Zoro a ton of trouble, but Zoro should be able to hold his own pretty well, and I'd imagine he could push Renji on the defensive what with having 2 swords and all. I ultimately see Renji getting pushed to Bankai, and, if he manages to get a good hit in on Zoro, he could win. However, I see Zoro taking down the bone beast more likely than not, and then going in to finish Renji. Renji's Bankai is extremely unwieldly, so this should be fairly simple for Zoro.

Winner- Zoro

Sanji vs. Ishida[/b- This one I think is rather obvious. Sanji's "new leg" (Diable Jambe) vs. Ishida's new bow, and now the specialized arrow/sword. 1200 consecutive arrows coming at Sanji is way too much for the guy, as much as I hate to admit it (why am I picking my favorites to lose?!). Seele Schneider is overkill, I think. Ishida probably can't take a hit is the only real danger with this, but then, he doesn't have to worry about that with that Shunpo class speed of his (or possibly faster than Shunpo) he has with Flying Curtain Legs.

Winner- Ishida

Nami vs. Orihime - We all know how this one's going to end.... In sex! xd On the actual fighting part, though... Nami's going to destroy Orihime in any kind of competition except bust measuring. THe Climatact is capable of making mirages to protect her from Tsubaki. Orihime's shielding ability is only useful from the front, and she doesn't have even close to the durability or endurance she'd need to be able to win against Nami.

Winner- Nami

Rukia vs. Robin- This is a fun match, and fairly balanced, actually. Rukia's got offensive power down for sure, but Robin's rather tricky with her flower fruit (forgot the real name). I'm guessing she could disarm Rukia and force the Shinigami to rely on Kidou attacks, which are fairly dodgeable. Robin's tricky nature will allow her to hold off Rukia from her sword, but Rukia's Kidou should allow her to avoid any serious damage until she can grap Sode no Shiro Yuki. Rukia can finish the match with her first dance. This match is rather variable filled, in truth, but ultimately, Rukia has a pretty good advantage.

Winner- Rukia

Ganju vs. Usopp/Sogeking- Ah, the battle of the useless tricksters! Ganju's fireworks are potent weapons indeed, and that orb that absorbs Reishi and makes a barrier would be a help as well. Usopp's got the same kind of skills with his hot sauce shots and fire birds. I'm tempted to give it to Usopp, because he's got incredible speed (comparable to Ganju) and he's better- MUCH better, at projectile attacks and tactics, not to mention his durability and endurance. However, Ganju's got consdirable power and durability himself (taking Ichigo's strongest hit is just freaking crazy!). If Usopp gets the crazies and charges in for close combat, he's going down I'm fairly sure. If it's a ranged battle for a prolonged period of time, then Usopp will probably win.

Winner- Tie

Chad vs. Chopper- Before Chad's latest power up, I would've called this pretty even, but now... Well, the only way I can see Chopper getting a good shot at winning is with that berserker form he gains after using 3 Rumble Balls. His forms split up his power too much, while Chad can now dash around at Shunpo-esque speeds and dish out hits that break huge rocks apart from the collateral damage. Now that huge form might be a problem, but Chad's speed will bring him the win. He can dodge around the big bad Reindeer and continuously use his special blasts. If he ever gets hit, his shield arm would absorb a ton of damage. His left arm is just insane on the power scale. Chad should snatch this victory.

Winner- Chad

Overall Chart:
Bleach wins-4 (Ichigo, Rukia, Chad, Ishida).
One Piece victories- 2 (Nami, Zoro).
Tie- 1 (Usopp vs. Ganju).

Comment (if you could read all that) and point out anything I may have gotten wrong. This is my first serious VS. debate post in a while, so I'm pretty rusty.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:11 am


^Woah, nice post! I agree on just about all accounts. I'd lean towards Nico Robin in her fight against Rukia, but that's more a matter of opinion than anything ealse.

Kamikazek-Z


Universal Law

Anxious Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:15 pm


Problem. I don't see Rukia beating Robin... At all. How is Kido going to help her when her fingers are broken or she had an arm comeing out of her forehead that's strangleing her.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:45 pm


Enigma Master Andrew
Problem. I don't see Rukia beating Robin... At all. How is Kido going to help her when her fingers are broken or she had an arm comeing out of her forehead that's strangleing her.

All she has to do is mutter a single word and hold her hand out, so she should be able to get off at least a Shakkahou. I don't see how Robin's going to break her fingers or start strangling her before then. Heck, Rukia's Kido is good enough that the very first spell she used, even when incantationless, bound Ichigo putting his hands behind his back with a word.

Rashou


Universal Law

Anxious Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 9:39 pm


Rashou
Enigma Master Andrew
Problem. I don't see Rukia beating Robin... At all. How is Kido going to help her when her fingers are broken or she had an arm comeing out of her forehead that's strangleing her.

All she has to do is mutter a single word and hold her hand out, so she should be able to get off at least a Shakkahou. I don't see how Robin's going to break her fingers or start strangling her before then. Heck, Rukia's Kido is good enough that the very first spell she used, even when incantationless, bound Ichigo putting his hands behind his back with a word.


I thought it was four words she had to say..."dance Sode no Shirayuki " That's a whole sentence. Yea Rukia's skilled with Kido but she has to go through those long incantations aswell... Robin doesn't have to say anything ( Except for her more advanced uses of her powers." While Rukia's talking all she has to do is snap her neck or break an arm or something. In the end as soon as Rukia tries something pop goes the weasle.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:56 am


Enigma Master Andrew
Rashou
Enigma Master Andrew
Problem. I don't see Rukia beating Robin... At all. How is Kido going to help her when her fingers are broken or she had an arm comeing out of her forehead that's strangleing her.

All she has to do is mutter a single word and hold her hand out, so she should be able to get off at least a Shakkahou. I don't see how Robin's going to break her fingers or start strangling her before then. Heck, Rukia's Kido is good enough that the very first spell she used, even when incantationless, bound Ichigo putting his hands behind his back with a word.


I thought it was four words she had to say..."dance Sode no Shirayuki " That's a whole sentence. Yea Rukia's skilled with Kido but she has to go through those long incantations aswell... Robin doesn't have to say anything ( Except for her more advanced uses of her powers." While Rukia's talking all she has to do is snap her neck or break an arm or something. In the end as soon as Rukia tries something pop goes the weasle.

That's when she uses her Shikai's ability that she needs a whole sentence to be said. She can use several other types of Kidou with single word incantations, though. And Rukia has quite the reaction speed- I doubt Robin would be able to start twisting on her neck or grabbing at her arm without her realizing and striking against Robin. Robin feels the pain of her create appendages like they're actually attached to her.

Rashou


Universal Law

Anxious Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:25 pm


Rashou
Enigma Master Andrew
Rashou
Enigma Master Andrew
Problem. I don't see Rukia beating Robin... At all. How is Kido going to help her when her fingers are broken or she had an arm comeing out of her forehead that's strangleing her.

All she has to do is mutter a single word and hold her hand out, so she should be able to get off at least a Shakkahou. I don't see how Robin's going to break her fingers or start strangling her before then. Heck, Rukia's Kido is good enough that the very first spell she used, even when incantationless, bound Ichigo putting his hands behind his back with a word.


I thought it was four words she had to say..."dance Sode no Shirayuki " That's a whole sentence. Yea Rukia's skilled with Kido but she has to go through those long incantations aswell... Robin doesn't have to say anything ( Except for her more advanced uses of her powers." While Rukia's talking all she has to do is snap her neck or break an arm or something. In the end as soon as Rukia tries something pop goes the weasle.

That's when she uses her Shikai's ability that she needs a whole sentence to be said. She can use several other types of Kidou with single word incantations, though. And Rukia has quite the reaction speed- I doubt Robin would be able to start twisting on her neck or grabbing at her arm without her realizing and striking against Robin. Robin feels the pain of her create appendages like they're actually attached to her.


So Rukia is gonna be looking for hands coming out of her body and twisting her arms behind her back? And she's gonna be able to react to that sice by the time she would notice she wouldn't be able to do anythig about it? I'm not saying Rukia's slow, I'm saying she aint that fast. She hasn't really shown any feats of speed at all... That leads me to believe that she wouldn't be able to do anything if Robin decided to break her neck wich is a very quick and simple movement.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:12 am


Well, no, Rukia wouldn't be looking for hands to come out of her back, but by the time they do anything, Rukia will react. For speed feats: Rukia was able to go toe to toe with the false Kaien, and dodge numerous sword strikes from him, not to mention keeping up with that Arancar (D. Roy, I think) that shot across the city and had a fingernail in Chad's chest before Chad could even twist away. Rukia blocked an advance from that guy moving at full speed. A normal human reaction speed should be more than applicable enough to react to something like a neck snap, unless the person was already in a position where it would be easy. Just think about it: Have you ever had anyone tap you on the shoulder? You can turn around and identify the cause before they can do much else. In a battle situation, Rukia wouldn't look to see what's grabbing her, she'd just yank away in best case scenario (for Robin) and probably attack in the worst case.

Rashou


Universal Law

Anxious Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:53 am


Ok that tap theory of yours I partially agree with. When someone taps you on the shoulder you can turn around and Identify them. But what if they're attacking you? When you turn around you would've done it just in time to get hit. Or have you ever had somebody ( A freind) Sneak up behind you and grab you? You can react but it's not like you can do much when your caught off guard and not expecting it. And D-Roy was a weak a** Arrancar possibly the weakest out of all the Gillian. Rukia blocked his strike but only just barely from the looks of it. Back then Chad hadn't done anything too note worthy ( Compared to other characters) To make him not being able to react even worth mentioning. If you wanna go there then fine. Luffy was able to see through Captain Kuro's stealth walk and Robin was able to snatch his hat away from him without him even noticing she had done it. She also disarmed Ussop and Sanji ( Sanji with a gun and Ussop with his sling shot) Before they could open fire on her. And I don't know where you get she wouldn't look. That's a natural reflex for anybody. If somethings hurting you look to see what it is and then react to it.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:53 pm


Enigma Master Andrew
Ok that tap theory of yours I partially agree with. When someone taps you on the shoulder you can turn around and Identify them. But what if they're attacking you? When you turn around you would've done it just in time to get hit. Or have you ever had somebody ( A freind) Sneak up behind you and grab you? You can react but it's not like you can do much when your caught off guard and not expecting it. And D-Roy was a weak a** Arrancar possibly the weakest out of all the Gillian. Rukia blocked his strike but only just barely from the looks of it. Back then Chad hadn't done anything too note worthy ( Compared to other characters) To make him not being able to react even worth mentioning. If you wanna go there then fine. Luffy was able to see through Captain Kuro's stealth walk and Robin was able to snatch his hat away from him without him even noticing she had done it. She also disarmed Ussop and Sanji ( Sanji with a gun and Ussop with his sling shot) Before they could open fire on her. And I don't know where you get she wouldn't look. That's a natural reflex for anybody. If somethings hurting you look to see what it is and then react to it.


D-Roy was weak, but even he was able to streak a ways across the city, so that's pretty darn fast. Rukia also had trouble blocking him, but the fact that she blocked him remains. I vaguely remember Robin snatching Luffy's hat away, but I don't quite remember all the details. Was he actually in a battle situation at that time? And don't forget that Robin touching his hat wouldn't alert him- his hat's not part of his head like Rukia's neck and arms are a part of her body. As for the theory I pointed out earlier, that was mostly to point out how fast one can react, even a normal human. I mentioned an off guard situation, that's a nice point, but in a battle between veteran fighters, neither is likely to be off guard. Same thing for the last thing you pointed out- if she weren't in a battle situation, maybe just walking down the street and felt her arm being twisted she would look, but she'd spare as little time as possible to look when someone's standing across from her ready to battle.

Rashou


Universal Law

Anxious Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:24 pm


Rukia may not be caught off guard but she won't be expecting that kind of attack. Most attacks in bleach are pretty straight on and right to the point. Rukia might be expecting something like that.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:15 pm


Good point, Rukia probably would be expecting a weapon attack. This is why I think she might take some damage from Robin, but an instant KO is probably more than Robin can pull off, I think.

Rashou


Universal Law

Anxious Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:08 pm


I'm gonna be honset I'm only as far as the English manga in One Piece so I'm not really sure on Robins full capabilities. So I'll concede this fight and give it to Rukia. And in truth all of the fights would go to the Bleach side due to the fact that the Pirate's wouldn't be able to see or hear them.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:58 am


Damn, this is one powerful fight...
And I would've never though One piece is that kick a**... I've seen the first few episodes, and when I saw a talkign reindeer, I immidietly stopped watching. But man, that Gear 2 thing completely changes your perspective.

Baulder


Rashou

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:00 am


Baulder
Damn, this is one powerful fight...
And I would've never though One piece is that kick a**... I've seen the first few episodes, and when I saw a talkign reindeer, I immidietly stopped watching. But man, that Gear 2 thing completely changes your perspective.

Indeed. Before this thread I thought One Piece was a little too wacky and childish for me.
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