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 Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:12 pm
Ohhh! She was killed in the anime? See, I haven't gotten that far, either.
I was thinking she died from the broken bracelets, also. So in a way, to me, that example isn't good enough. The story line was changed, yes? :/
I agree with that defending.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:18 pm
Nariana Ohhh! She was killed in the anime? See, I haven't gotten that far, either. I was thinking she died from the broken bracelets, also. So in a way, to me, that example isn't good enough. The story line was changed, yes? :/ I agree with that defending. I do not know what happened in the anime! It might follow the manga I do not know... I have not watched that far.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:27 pm
Hmmm....=__= We need a SM anime expert! Too many manga experts in here! xD
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:24 pm
Well, actually I think she would've been killed by the 'real' senshi. Just like Lethe and Mnemosyne were. They were 'good' but they were killed by Chi and Phi. Which proves that Tin Nyanko probably could've stayed with Sailor moon the others up to a certain point in the Stars.
After all, Lethe and Mnemosyne were essentially good as the latter of the two -helped- Sailor Moon and the Starlights before they were killed.
Therefore she doesn't have an excuse for doing that. Now that I'm thinking about it, Sailor Senshi are pretty much killers and it's been romanticized what they do.
But in the Anime, Sailor Moon attacks and she's partially healed. She's confused between wanting to follow Galaxia's orders and wanting to help.
In the end, Tin Nynako dies because of Galaxia taking her bracelets back.
Though Anime Sailor Moon appears to be more forgiving (as well as the other Senshi) then their Manga counterparts- the results still the same.
None of them ever showed Regret, Remorse or even grief after killing something that can speak with them and be reasoned with.
I actually blame Luna and Artemis for it because they're telling these girls basically, "Oh they're just monsters! You killed evil"
Same thing with the Outer Senshi too if you think about it and about Hotaru.
The only reason Hotaru even gets to live is because Chibiusa and the others saw her as Human and spent enough time around her to be attached. Therefore they wanted to save that.
While Pluto, Uranus and Neptune understood the neccessity in killing and I think from their attitudes they made peace with the fact that they're doing their jobs and are basically killing other things.
Pluto to me, always looked like she knew better, but that might be me projecting. She seemed rather egared to join the fight as well.
And Chibiusa, man, she was trained and spoiled to think a certain way.
Mamoru himself is also guilty of all this as well, however I think he-like the Outers- understood what they're doing and probably felt bad especially about the Generals- again could be me projecting but either way...
So in the end, we have a bunch of teenagers and kids that are going on like nothing happened.
The only person that has never killed in the entire series of either one is ChibiChibi and the Mauians. (Which still doesn't excuse them either.)
While I know the Anime/Manga and all are suppose to be about 'Love Friendship ect', I think the one flaw Naoko never thought of or the Animators never thought of was the simplest of things that most children know when properly taught and most people feel bad about->
Killing things that you know are sentient and know they have emotions.
I mean people feel bad about killing animals-even wild ones that are mistreated- and we put them down because we Cannot communicate with them to reassure them nothing will happen.
On the same token, we take people that are like those animals and we put them in asylums only because they're humans too and we can understand them.
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:17 pm
I'm afraid I don't really understand what you mean in the first paragraph about the Animates. Could you simplify it or break it down? One or the other would be helpful.
Some of this I kinda understand, but it's not dully processing in my mind...It all keeps coming back to mere human error in logic, like right now with me....
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:07 pm
Rei Torano While Pluto, Uranus and Neptune understood the neccessity in killing and I think from their attitudes they made peace with the fact that they're doing their jobs and are basically killing other things. I totally agree with this part here!! In the anime they have many MANY conversations and debates about what they were doing and if it was right. They main reason was because *Even if 3 innocents die (the ones with the pure heart crystals) it would save the rest of the world. Even though it is a tough sacrifice, it has to be done" and they STILL felt bad about it. That is why they are my favorites. heart I think the rest of the scouts were either too young to understand this concept or they were "looking through rose coloured glasses" as they say (does anyone know what that means anymore?) ^_^
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Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:50 pm
Nariana- In the Stars Manga: The Animates (Lead Crow/Tin Nyanko, Siren, Heavy Metal Papillion and Iron Mouse) are -not- Real Sailor Senshi because they don't posses the necessary power for their starseeds to become Sailor Crystals.
What they have is borrowed power from the original Sailor Senshi of their planets (Sailor Chuu, Mau, Mermaid, Coon, and Cronis.).
In the Manga, I'm pointing out that Tin Nyanko could've been persuaded if Sailor Moon spent time trying to do that as well. Yes, Diana, Luna and Artemis couldn't even though they tried.
But, Sailor Moon is supposedly suppose to be able to forgive and ect if she can see the good in them and usually could probably get them to help her.
Tin Nynako wouldn't have been killed until later like the Starlights and Kakyuu had been when they went to the center of the galaxy.
What supports this Theory is that Sailor Lethe and Mnemosyne- two true Sailor Senshi that gave up their warring planets for the peace that Galaxia offered them- eventually did turn against Galaxia.
Lethe seemed to want to protect Mnemosyne to the point that she would do whatever is asked of her.
Mnemosyne stops Lethe from killing Sailor Moon and the others when they're under Lethe's spell and returns Kakyuu her memories which were lost.
They were prepared to help them further if Sailor Chi and Phi (Another pair of 'twins' it seems and real Senshi) hadn't killed them.
Mnemosyne seems to be regretful about their decision to sacrifice two planets full of people just because they couldn't get them to stop fighting and had given up hope.
Lethe is more determined to protect Mnemosyne so it's hard to say if she regrets having done that or not.
Chi and Phi (Believe it was Phi that killed Kakyuu) seem like your classic killers without a conscience.
Metal Papillion- from what we're told- actually has a child. (We're not told if it's a boy or girl only that she had a child.) So I can guess why she ended up being an Animate and it probably has something to do with that child.
---
Luv- I know! At least they faced it and went "....Well we don't like it, but we have to do it."
Even Saturn's like that. <<;
I don't think you're ever too young to understand these things. I think it's more of rose colored Glasses too. Putting things in a certain way so they don't have to look too closely at their own morals.
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:46 am
Okay, I think I understand about the Senshis' different morals on the matter. I used to think that the Outer Senshi were mean when I was little, but they're just the adults of the group. Like you said, the knew what had to be done to make the most efficient solution when they knew someone was bound to die. Sometimes, I think they were wrong. Example, they almost resorted to killing Hotaru. SM saved her and everyone else, actually
Nyanko and the first twins probably had a chance to be saved if Galaxia hadn't destroyed them.
The younger Scouts, to me, don't seem to feel remorse because they have condemned them as "evil" or whatever ...Am I getting it better now?
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:52 am
Nariana Okay, I think I understand about the Senshis' different morals on the matter. I used to think that the Outer Senshi were mean when I was little, but they're just the adults of the group. Like you said, the knew what had to be done to make the most efficient solution when they knew someone was bound to die. Sometimes, I think they were wrong. Example, they almost resorted to killing Hotaru. SM saved her and everyone else, actually Nyanko and the first twins probably had a chance to be saved if Galaxia hadn't destroyed them. The younger Scouts, to me, don't seem to feel remorse because they have condemned them as "evil" or whatever ...Am I getting it better now? I think you got it just perfectly!! heart even when I was little I thought the outer senshi were the coolest.. but I think that was because I thought they had the most awesome transformations, more powerful attacks, and just looked and acted cooler than the rest of the senshi. xd But I also agree with all of your human error thoughts: Sometimes we just mess up (even sailor senshi)
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:03 pm
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Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:05 pm
Wow! What a discussion!! heart The best one yet, I say
*yay! 100th post!*
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:21 pm
Yay! 100!
I thought the Outer Senshi were different from the rest, even when I was little. I just couldn't figure out what, exactly.
Glad you agree with the human error thing. ^^
Yes!! I got it!! My logic came through in a paraphrased form!
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:31 am
Okay! Next Question! (I was going to remember it but then I just realized I do not know what number this is... I think it might be..4 or 5?) So yes! And it is...
Religion. Do you follow/believe in a religion? If so what is it and why? If not why? Are you family members/people close to you okay with your choice? Do you have a significant other who has different beliefs? And just to though it in there, do you think SM has any religious themes etc?
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:00 pm
Well my family is primarily Southern Baptists- They're usually either in the line of jobs of teachers, nurses or preachers/ex-military or all in one. I don't state my religious affiliations with them because I don't care to hear their speeches at times- They're not pushy about it or whatever. They totally (most of the ones I met) believe that you can't make people love something through force.
Though, my cousin mixes both that primary belief with a few Asian influences. Which is interesting.
And I had a Great-uncle that was into Voodun (A mix of African religions meshed with Christian ones).
Because they've all studied the bible at one point (My Uncle Sam pretty much has a degree that says 'I've read the whole thing.' ) I feel fine in asking them about certain things. Especially if it's for research.
My personal affiliations religiously is mostly agnostic.
That and I honestly am not concerned about it. I just believe that whatever happens, happens. That's the core of it, but I do have flights of fancy in believing that the afterlife is whatever -we- decide it is in the current life.
I have issues with believing in the Bible itself as some parts of it I think of as truly heinous in it's own way. (Like the death of children just because they're calling someone 'baldy'. Or selling your daughter. Or even making the person that raped her pay some silver and marry her. )
Sure it's mostly Old testament that bothers me-but parts of the new one bothers me too.
I don't entirely believe in miracles. Miracles to me is another way of saying-> "I don't understand it." Same thing with Magic. We just can't find a way to explain it.
It also bothers me when people go with that whole witchcraft thing when really most of our big holidays are pagan-based.
Not to mention the things Jesus did could constitute as 'Magic' and witchcraft in it's own right. ie- Walking on water. Water to wine ect.
The fact that I think God had a good deal in just not telling anyone its' name. Yahweh is another way of saying "I am" or rather "To become".
^ But that's only mostly my beef with parts of Christianity. Religion, in a way, as a whole causes a ton of problems (More then it solves).
But that's also because of the Human need to make things make sense.
As a whole, we don't want our whole existence to be meaningless. We want a big brother/sister that is actually looking out for us.
Since no one knows for -certain- (as no one has literally been dead for a bit and came back maybe) then it remains unknown.
For all we know, the concepts of a 'heaven' and 'hell' are probably worlds beyond our normal senses and we just slide into that after we die. Or remain here.
*Shrugs* Buuut that's just me. ;3
As for SM, yeah, it's littered with religious symbolism but, like I pointed out to this other guy - it doesn't necessarily make them of that religion.
Like for instance- Rei is a Shinto Priestess. She attends Catholic school. But it doesn't make her Catholic because she's Shinto.
There's a lot of 'crosses' and reborn/purity symbols as well-especially in the Artbooks, but that doesn't make the christian either. Especially when you take note of the Japanese history. For a long time after it was introduced, Christianity is a really small following in practice then not.
People like the symbolism- just like we dabble in playing with other religious symbolism too. (Shiva, Voodun ect.)
So, I think not to look too deeply in SM/Religion.
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:01 pm
I, as you probably know, am a Christian. I go an Assemblies of God church, but I wish there weren't so many "branches" of Christianity. I know there some "iffy" parts that supposedly believe different than the basic belief...but I wish there was only the one main branch. It's so confusing! Ugh!
Also, there are some parts I kind of want to talk about with what Rei said, but religion in all is too cmplicated to properly discuss without becoming too personal from what I have seen...
I'll just ask: Why is Rei agnostic? You believe something, but...???
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